Rogue guide?

[Kazak]

Hiya folks, I would like to start an alt and I have never played a rogue before. Could some of your pro/vets give some pointers for a newbie rogue.

What are the better races for a rogue, what are the stats, what are useful/needed feats. What is good to start with, etc?

I understand the approach of playing what I like best, but just wanted to know what works better.

Thank you.

[thedork]

Hiya folks, I would like to start an alt and I have never played a rogue before. Could some of your pro/vets give some pointers for a newbie rogue.

What are the better races for a rogue, what are the stats, what are useful/needed feats. What is good to start with, etc?

I understand the approach of playing what I like best, but just wanted to know what works better.

Thank you.

I should warn you that rogues are one of the most underpowered classes in NWN2. If you want to eventually go shadow dancer or assassin make sure you work towards it immediately.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing when making a rogue is to make the first feat you take - "Weapon Finesse" so it bases your attack rolls off your dexterity and not strength, at level 6 maybe take two-weapon fighting.

As for better races I suppose that would be plane touched, or a deep gnome (i.e the one that takes years to lvl), or halfling.

You will need to balance what weapons you use based on your character size, to get the right combination of attack bonus and damage, either you're going to miss too much, and do a lot of damage, or do a lot of damage if you ever hit, you pretty much need to get it in the middle of there. Daggers will give you the highest AB, lowest damage, and it goes from there.

Hope some of that helps, but it's pretty much the obvious.

[LethalBlade]

Stoutheart Hafling is my favorite choice for a rogue (2 feats at start). Also remember, as a rogue, your major damage dealing comes from your sneak attacks (from behind the opponent), and going toe to toe with opponents can be trouble.

[Stormknife]

I should warn you that rogues are one of the most underpowered classes in NWN2.

Ignore this. Rogues have a hard time soloing, yes. Team a rogue with even one other person, and all bets are off.

Dex is your most important stat, hands down. You'll want to take weapon finesse, too, since that will let you boost your dexterity without having to worry about your attack bonus.

Now the bad news. Weapon finesse limits you to a small subset of weapons. Daggers, short swords, rapier, and possibly Kukri all come to mind. I tend to prefer 2 short swords...your weapon choice should be based on personal preference, in all honesty.

Knockdown is useful. Power attack/cleave are also surprisingly effective. Personally, I always go for two weapon fighting; may as well get off as many attacks per round as you possibly can.

As far as race...the pure munchkin will go with an elf. +2 to search (I think?), +2 to listen, and you're always in detect mode (which means never having to say you blew up because you forgot to click the button). But, honestly, just about any race works. I would actually recommend against a planetouched for anything except a pure rogue; at level 10 you get either a bonus feat or a special ability; a tiefling or aasimar don't get that, and some of those special abilities are pretty nice.

Like the one that lets all your sneak attacks also do 2 strength damage per hit. That may not win a fight for you, but I dunno how many times in NWN1 my insane charge managed to cripple the baddie so badly he couldn't escape. End result: Squished bad guy.

[EvilPyrate]

The big tip as far as rogues in D&D & NWN are concerned:

Rogues are not heavy hitters and were never meant to be. Rogues are opportunists and guerilla fighters.

I've spent a lot of time playing rogue characters in various games, so now I will ramble. Keep in mind, this isn't really broken down into separate thoughts, just what comes to the top of my head.

As thedork said, Weapon Finesse is definitely a must. Strength is wasted on a rogue. Dexterity, Constitution, and Intelligence are your hallmarks. Rogues are not about fighting. Rogues have an amazing array of skills; use them. Rogues do best when they scout out a situation and then get in and out unseen. If something needs to be killed, you don't just walk up and smack it. That's for meatshields (fighters, paladins, barbarians). Never be in the front line of the attack. Be WAY in front of it (scouting) or behind (mopping up and taking attacks of opportunity). Think sideways. Think in spirals and mazes. Don't confront any problem head on. Take the oblique approach. A capable rogue is amazingly self-sufficient - you can use spell scrolls for Clerics and Wizards and items that are restricted to other classes/alignments/races/etc. Be paranoid. Have eyes in the back of your head. Expect someone to be behind you. Why? Because that's where you would be. Rogue is a completely different mindset from any other career choice.

[Vahene]

On Das1, I had an elf. On Das2, a human. The reason I decided to choose the human this time around was because of two things: (1) extra feat at level 1, and (2) extra skill points. If you're creating a Shadow Thief, my recommendation is to do a half-elf. Yes, I know they're ugly, but they get bonuses to Diplomacy and Bluff, combined with ranks in those, plus the bonuses you get from 5 levels of ST, it is rather nice. I changed my mind, however, from ST to Shadowdancer, because I want HIPS, just to be brutally honest. Well, and my rogue serves Peralia, so I want the shadow.

You can find advantages and disadvantages in every race really, just depends on what you want to RP.

My other recommendations would be to not pick pocket until the server is more stable, be prepared to die even if you don't pick pocket anyone--because if your'e a rogue people equate that with stealing despite the fact you might not even have any ranks in Sleight of Hand. And you will die a lot anyway, at lower levels at least. You have three possible, well four, PrC's, if you want to go that route. With decent Charisma, you could be a very nice Divine Champion, with good Intelligence an Arcane Trickster (I would honestly recommend a wizard if you want to do this), or a Shadowdancer or Shadow Thief.

With any route you take, my one recommendation which will probably make your life easier eventually would be to take ranks in one of the following: Intimidate, Bluff or Diplomacy (the old Persuade). DM's have said numerous times these will be utilized more in Das2. To not listen to them.. well, at your own risk, I guess.

If you want to be a tiefling, that's probably the best race overall stat wise. HOWEVER. Remember that some of the races listed do have a level penalty, and tieflings (from personal experience with Neeshka in the main single player) are horrid to try to level. If you do this, have a lot of patience.

-K

[Rob]

Consider what everybody posts here then do the opposite. You wont be the most effective rogue, but you'll be the most memorable.

[EvilPyrate]

Consider what everybody posts here then do the opposite. You wont be the most effective rogue, but you'll be the most memorable.

Heh. I like sarcastic sadists!

[happydictates]

i had feint in the OC with the highest bluff i could get and a +2 charisma modifier. i could non-stop sneak attack any opponent that was not immune. do not, however, pick up feint in the beginning because its not incredibly useful until you get multiple attacks per round with a higher BAB and better 2wep fighting.

[Kazak]

Thanks to everyone for their input, including Rob I have seen every race being a rogue, from gnome to half-orc. They all stand out in their own little ways I guess. I am pretty boring in my tactics, I always play monks in rpg games (EQ, DAOC, NWN1 and now NWN2). So I really enjoy the straight forward approach to facing an opponent. Rush in, hit as fast as you can and get out.

It will be different to switch back to a more stealthy tactic, but I shall try my best If you see a noob rogue running around, don't hesitate to drop a tip or two on how to be a pro.

[obsoletenihilist]

Consider what everybody posts here then do the opposite. You wont be the most effective rogue, but you'll be the most memorable.

Exactly. More or less, take everyone's ideas under consideration and then make your rogue how you want. Don't do something just because it's the best. Do it because you think it will add to your character..

Point and case, I never expected Nrungg to be as well liked as he is.. but I guess the novelty of a strength based half-orc rogue tickles some people. Will he be the best character ever? Heck no, he's not as smart as a good rogue should be, he's not going to be as good at spotting traps, or disabling traps, etc etc than some halfling rogue with 30 dex. What he is going to be is one of those characters who I absolutely love to play because he's not perfect.

I'd choose and pick your stats, base classes, and PrCs based on how they fit the character you've thought up and designed best. Not by min/maxing the best character ever.

Edit: And yes, Feint is quite possibly the best thing ever.. Too bad I'll never be able to get it for Nrungg.

[Zephis]

My own personal take on Rogues is versatility.
Don't dump stat your CHA, you need it for social skills and UMD, which is the most powerful ability that rogues get.

[Dusty]

I should warn you that rogues are one of the most underpowered classes in NWN2.

Ignore this.

Don't... Everyone's advice is valuable. Rogues have been heavily nerfed. You have to get right behind an enemy to sneak attack and as far as I know, you can't get multiple sneak attacks with > 3 attacks per round.

[Grayle]

My suggestion would be to take what benefits you now. Trying to plan too far ahead can just drive you crazy with indecision, and it also inhibits your ability to let the campaign take your character places you did not expect to go.

[Stormknife]

You have to get right behind an enemy to sneak attack...

Sort of. The enemy either needs to be flat footed, or you need to be behind them while they attack someone else. Since you're ideally attacking an enemy once they're already attacking someone else, this isn't that big of a change.

...and as far as I know, you can't get multiple sneak attacks with > 3 attacks per round.

Based on what? I haven't seen this yet in single player, although admittedly I haven't paid as much attention to Neeshka as I probably should.