Area Camping and "Kill" Stealing

[EdCase]

[quote="Cain
It's not "griefing" just because someone bugs you or steals a quest item out from under you. I did this not so long ago myself. Tried to join/create a party for some questing, but everyone was being an IC bastard, not wanting to pair up with a Drow rogue. Found a nice looking, rogueless group - a fighter, a druid and an arcane magic user - but they wouldn't hunt with a Drow either. Boo. So, anyway, I trailed just out of sight behind them, letting them kill everything for me, until they got to the first good, lootable area, and then I swooped in and got all the chest and rack loot. And, as they were just finishing up with the mini-boss, I decided to "help" kill him, and grab the dropped quest item real quick.

(Not to mention any names, but some of them were later observed complaining how unfair it was that the DMs put in those weapon racks you need a rogue to untrap. Yeah, I poached *that* loot too, after they pushed on. Beautiful +2/+2 longbow that 's all mine now .)

Similarly, someone I won't mention was (IC) slamming on me for my Drowness in town... later, while hunting boar and bears and the like in the North, asked me nicely (IC) to stop taking his kills and stealing the leathers. (Lvl 5 and less XP/gold grinding.) And then (OC) called me mean names after he got fed up with me doing it anyway for the next 15 minutes.

And I wasn't "griefing" or kill camping in either case. Why's my rogue gonna cut either of these guys a break? Because you asked nice? Pssh. All that does is (maybe) prevent my sword from finding your kidney.

Sorry if you find this behavior irritating, but it's one of the limitations to playing online with other people, and there's nothing inherently wrong with saying "no" to another player's request. If I'm playing an evil character... or a greedy character... or a self-interested character (etc), why, exactly, am I going to honor your nice request? Right, I'm not.[/quote]

While this is all well and good..you also did this to a party I was in...Confrontation evolved.All in IC which was nice.
Then you went and blew it...
Character threatens violence to reclaim quest item from your corpse if you won't surrender it. Your response?

"Meh! We both know you won't get it by killing me.. So I'll be going now..cya"

Totally ruined the moment Cain. I and my party were all aware we could simply wait for the respawn. The point was the RP something it appears you use as an excuse to try to grab the "goodies".

[Dusty]

Honestly Cain, your responses in this thread have driven my opinion of you into the rocks. You think it's okay to do something that you -know- will upset other players and justify that by saying you're playing an evil character. Playing an evil character does not, will not and never has justified griefing, kill stealing, etc.

Honestly, when someone pops up and PKs you in retribution for all the **** you've made your fellow players put up with or when the DMs finally get sick of the complaints about an annoying drow harassing them in game, you can bet I won't be sticking up for you.


I think Tinuvhiell summed up how I feel about all of this in one sentence:

If people aren't having fun, don't do it.

[Zandes]

While this is all well and good..you also did this to a party I was in...Confrontation evolved.All in IC which was nice.
Then you went and blew it...
Character threatens violence to reclaim quest item from your corpse if you won't surrender it. Your response?

"Meh! We both know you won't get it by killing me.. So I'll be going now..cya"

Totally ruined the moment Cain. I and my party were all aware we could simply wait for the respawn. The point was the RP something it appears you use as an excuse to try to grab the "goodies".

well this sucks, i think that if something like this happens it would be nice if the "thief" comes back and gives you the quest items you would have "looted" from his body when he dies

[Cain]

I did respond to everyone I thought I should, but would seriously like some clarification on this hole thing, because either I don't get RP or there's some confusion, or Dasaria isn't as RP as I thought... so seriously, please clarify things for me, even if my responses seem a little defensive or whatever.

It is quite easy to make up roleplaying reasons for griefing. You can probably do that with anything.

At least ask yourself if what you do would really be possible, and I am not talking about game mecanics. The hide does not really "drop" off the bear. The bear is skinned. This takes time.

Although you could emote running up to a body, crushing it's hand with the heel of your boot, and grabbing the ring from it's finger in a single swift motion, it is still griefing.

While true that the loot doesn't really "drop," neither are the killers (or anyone) magically able to just pick up a guy's head. Doesn't picking it up represent who was able to get the job done first? ("Hah, I cut off his ring finger and grabbed the ring first!") The game mechanic representing a RL event that takes much longer - like resting, for example...

And I hardly think it's just weak justification for a rogue to say "yeah, I was faster, tough luck. Feel free to try to get it by force *run off*" (And as an aside, my Drow rogue generally offers the chance for the victim to purchase the items back in some fashion, so I'm not just running in, grabbing and running away...) Or for a Drow to say "why would I honor your request, surfacer male? [to leave and stop fighting the same enemies you are]" (Yeah, there's waiting around until some tough enemy's at 2 HP and landing a killing blow, which is grieing, but there's also mad dashing for the next kill, each attacking the critter at the same time.) I think this is all perfectly IC, (or can be... a paladin probably should do it, obviously) but it appears I don't know half as much about RP as I think I do. Or something.

If people aren't having fun, don't do it.

People play this game to have a good time. If you are ruining someones good time, you are greifing to me.

There will be some people who don't like to pvp at all. That should be their choice and you should abide by it. Everyone should.

Really? RP until someone doesn't like it? Well, I don't like PvP because I lose... or end up running. (Yes, almost every time Drow rogues don't do to well in one on one PvP.) So if I don't want to get PKed IC again, all I have to do is point out OOC that PvP isn't fun for me? That really doesn't sound right...

While this is all well and good..you also did this to a party I was in...Confrontation evolved.All in IC which was nice.
Then you went and blew it...
Character threatens violence to reclaim quest item from your corpse if you won't surrender it. Your response?

"Meh! We both know you won't get it by killing me.. So I'll be going now..cya"

Totally ruined the moment Cain. I and my party were all aware we could simply wait for the respawn. The point was the RP something it appears you use as an excuse to try to grab the "goodies".

That's not how it happened, Ed. When it went OOC because I said (approximately) "we both know you'll never be able to beat it out of me," so take me along or I'll run away, you said something about game mechanics and how it wasn't going to be a beating, but a killing. To which I responded OOC that I was referring to surfacers being unable to torture a Drow. And then carried on the IC talk for about 30 more seconds... until I saw three comments from your party members about killing me. ("I say we kill the Drow anyway," "this one's caused me trouble before, let's just kill her," and something else I don't recall.)

At which point I ran like hell, not having an INT of <6.

I'm sorry if it ruined the moment for you, but I did explain and clarify myself in game, and then ran off when it became obvious that popular opinion was strongly in favor of an imminent Drow execution. I wasn't talking about game mechanics, as I explained... and I only ran off when everyone was calling for Drow blood. I thought the reasons for my flight were pretty obvious, but I guess not.

Honestly Cain, your responses in this thread have driven my opinion of you into the rocks. You think it's okay to do something that you -know- will upset other players and justify that by saying you're playing an evil character. Playing an evil character does not, will not and never has justified griefing, kill stealing, etc.

I'm A) not playing an evil character (one CG shifting to CN and one true neutral) B) I'm just saying that some of the activities you guys are complaining about don't seem like griefing to me.

You don't think it's good RP for a rogue to steal stuff from under the noses of other people/parties (or even the rogue's party members, for that matter)? Come on.

You don't think it's good RP for a Drow to not put any weight in the request of a surfacer male? Really?

Honestly, to me, a lot of this seems like people saying "Well, I don't like it when X happens, so it MUST be griefing. No one could possibly do anything IC that I don't like, so.... ZOMG, call a DM!"

Hell, I don't steal loot with my Druid, nor do I have a habit of telling surfacer males I don't care what they want - because that's not IC for a true neutral druid.

Honestly, when someone pops up and PKs you in retribution for all the **** you've made your fellow players put up with or when the DMs finally get sick of the complaints about an annoying drow harassing them in game, you can bet I won't be sticking up for you.

Yeah, because my Drow rogue's never been PKed by an angry theft victim or new, more powerful leveled up surfacer male I've had past IC conflicts with or anything like that.

And if I get banned for being "annoying" and "harrassing" because my Drow rogue acts all Drow and rogueish... and <gasp> steals things, or treat male surfacers with contempt... well, what can I say? Doubt I'll miss a server where I have to RP a goody-two-shoes or not RP at all.

[xxcyperxx]

WOW, ok first of all... I"M SORRY FOR MAKING SUCH A BIG MESS.

Second, I didn't mean for this to roll into a second page.

The only reason I brought this up was because I noticed this person running back and forth through the area, and the second a new "monster" spawned, he darted to it, and it didn't matter that I was alread engaged in combat with the creature.

The entire situations made me feel like he was just farming the area, and that he didn't need to give any real reason (IC/RP/OOC/Otherwise) for his actions.

Let me clarify, if there was ANY rp involved, I would have been find, but I was already putt off by his "name." When I tired to engage him in RP, he responded with" just passing the time" as he was running off ot find the rest of the spawns.

I would have really enjoyed it if it was along the lines of... "if you think you're getting the reward from cheese guy, think again."

[A Wandering Monk]

I'm A) not playing an evil character (one CG shifting to CN and one true neutral) B) I'm just saying that some of the activities you guys are complaining about don't seem like griefing to me.

You don't think it's good RP for a rogue to steal stuff from under the noses of other people/parties (or even the rogue's party members, for that matter)? Come on.

You don't think it's good RP for a Drow to not put any weight in the request of a surfacer male? Really?



Yeah, because my Drow rogue's never been PKed by an angry theft victim or new, more powerful leveled up surfacer male I've had past IC conflicts with or anything like that.

And if I get banned for being "annoying" and "harrassing" because my Drow rogue acts all Drow and rogueish... and <gasp> steals things, or treat male surfacers with contempt... well, what can I say? Doubt I'll miss a server where I have to RP a goody-two-shoes or not RP at all.

I quoted the part applying to my comments. It seems to me that you use race, class and alignment interchangeably and they are not.

A"rogue" is a set of class specific skills. It does not lock you into playing an unsavory character. There are good rogues that never steal, never pickpocket, etc. It is a skill set that allows you to do certain things. An adventurer, if you will.

Drow is a race- usually foul and evil but just like any other race their alignment dictates their actions.

You say your rogue is cg headed to cn. Why did you make him cg if you intended to be cn? If you make a character with a preconceived notion of what he is going to be and how he is going to get there that's a bit unrealistic. Alignmnent change is not to be taken lightly and should be the result of the actual experiences of a character, not a preplanned course of action.

In an earlier thread you justified your actions by saying you are evil, but here you say 1 character is cg and the other is n. Where did the evil come from? I'm confused by alot of the justifications.

[613 The Evil]

Greetings, I am 613 The Evil.

I chose my nickname more than a decade ago. If somebody like I read before needs to kill me on sight just because of my name, well, I rest my case. It's just sad. Ok, you can't accept numbers as names. Despite the fact that numbers are everywhere. But I won't degrade myself to explaining my nickname to people questioning my intelligence without even knowing me. I will change it only because a DM asked me to do so, not because of some whiners, who claim that "I ruin their rp experience".

First things first, I am sorry about the incident with the wererat. I was just in the area trying to complete the cheese quest but some other players had already cleared most of the areas. So I was roaming and hitting the target nearest enemy button waiting for the quest monsters to show up. And that brought me to the certain wererat, which unfortunately fell to my blades. Ok? I wasn't stalking the other player to steal his kills. I didn't notice there was another guy hitting it until it was too late. I'm sorry again about that.

If there are any consequences they need to be made clear so I will take my measures in the feature. I would love to complete each quest only once, honestly, if I could actually get the xp to pass to the next level or somehow avoid crashes every other minute. I'm not a griefer, trust me I've seen more pathetic gaming attitude than mine in the server. But I'm not the one to call names.

About the other incident with the half-orc. He was 3-4 levels above me at least, with 2 other similar companions. I opened the door to the altar room (or maybe it was open already, can't remember) and ran straight to the boss, while they were attacking the minions. They killed them while I was about to finish the boss and I gave him the final blow I remember that very well I got the xp too. So I found it logical to loot his corpse. Now usually good natured players try to just party with you and return the hand to the quest giver so everybody is happy and with the quest completed. But they wanted it all for themselves. Did I kill him for nothing then? After some talking outside of the room The female char tried to hit me, while I was trying to remain in character. (She turned red to me, that certifies it I think.) So I choose to flee the scene, because I wouldn't stand a chance against 3 powerfull players. And not because I was guilty. The fact that I didn't report them to any dm has nothing to do with that. I'm not the first one to turn to any kind of authority, anywhere.

Now if I can't fit in your perfect little "rp" where I can't even bluff a dumb half-orc but everybody calls me shorty and midget, then I will survive don't worry. If you want to play a dumb but strong orc, then, please act stupid, not bitchy. It's different. (Is bitchy alright Mr. McCarthy?)

Please don't hate so much, I've helped other players that were kind to me. I never said everybody has to like me but show me respect and I'll adore you. I'm really not a game spoiler, unless somebody has issues of his own. Paladins with an attitude, please spare me your flames. We don't need more macho guys to have a better game. We need patches...and patience. Neverwinter Nights 2 is not perfect yet for role playing if you ask me.

So, once again, I have to express my apologies to xxcyperxx for that incident. As for the other one, I think I have the right on my side. (Although I prefer the left...)

Please people show some sense, nobody was born an uber role player. I'm not one of these ignorant noobs that keep writing l33t with abrevations and stuff, showing off, abuse other people and being proud of how much life they don't have and stuff. I want a place in Dasaria but I want to earn it not boot-lick my way to it.

Sorry for my general aggresive tone but I am alone, cornered, and my character currenty banned. Give me a break and I will give you a gold coin. That's all.

edit j4: I fixed your paragraphs. I think they got mixed up when you pasted it in.

[demon022184]

It ruins immersion in the game...

[xxcyperxx]

Evil... thank you for posting. I accecpt your apoligy whole-heartedly as a general misunderstanding and miscommunication.

I would personally like to start over with you, maybe in a tavern and not a dark dank cavern full of death rats and bloodthirsty questers.

I hope everyone can put this in the past and move on... I'd rather take more time to understand someone's RP and devleope someone's RP ability than just to bann them outright.



Cheers

[Dusty]

To be fair, he said if he was playing an evil character, not while he was playing an evil character.

As for rogues stealing, using your magicut 5000 skinning knife to cut a bear skin and run off with it right under someone's nose is not RP. On the same note, a chaotic good drow would be used to rejection and would not stalk a party through a dungeon then steal the treasure in vengeance.

Either way, we seem to be missing the point here...

Your RP should be enjoyable for everyone. I've played good, neutral and evil characters and lost everything and died and not been upset because it was well RPed. I've had characters seduced and fed on by vampires, beaten and thrown down a well by evil henchmen, stolen from by cunning thieves and chased across a contient by angry druids. You -CAN- play violent, thieving, evil, vengeful characters without pissing people off. If your RP provokes people to complain about you on the forum rather than praise you on the forum then you're doing it wrong.

So in short, no. No, you do not know half as much about RP as you think you do. You should never role play for yourself, instead role play for your fellow players.


In reply to 613,
Maybe you aren't so bad, somewhere between a hack'n'slasher and an RPer and that's fine, but why 613 The Evil? I used to use the name Catfish, but I didn't go around calling my characters Fishylips McDoogal, y'know? 613 The Evil really is a travesty in naming conventions.

[jawsofhana]

So in short, no. No, you do not know half as much about RP as you think you do. You should never role play for yourself, instead role play for your fellow players.

Now that is a good quote. Just what I am trying to say.

[ChikenKannon]

Aye. A very good quote *looks down*

[Cain]

I quoted the part applying to my comments. It seems to me that you use race, class and alignment interchangeably and they are not.

No, I'm not. Maybe I'm not being clear... I do that from time to time.

A"rogue" is a set of class specific skills. It does not lock you into playing an unsavory character. There are good rogues that never steal, never pickpocket, etc. It is a skill set that allows you to do certain things. An adventurer, if you will.

True, maybe I'm old school, but I think of a rogue as a thief. Mine certainly is. So I RP it that way. <shrug> I dunno how to do that, other than to do it... thieves don't wear big signs announcing they intend to rip you off. (I'd allude to it in my description, but those things are set in stone... and I can't change it now.)

Drow is a race- usually foul and evil but just like any other race their alignment dictates their actions.

*nods* But also by racial factors - the Drow come from a matriarchal society and gave notoriously low respect (or should I say high contempt) for males. And surfacers. So, especially surfacer males.

And that has to factor into good roleplay, IMO. So, I play it thusly - a thieving rogue with little to no respect for surfacer males or their laws and edicts (which would maker her chaotic), who's willing to do just about anything to get what she wants (in terms of law/unlafwul), but with a slight respect for good/evil (hence her banishing from the Underdark). Therefore, seems that CN is the choice to go with.

You say your rogue is cg headed to cn. Why did you make him cg if you intended to be cn? If you make a character with a preconceived notion of what he is going to be and how he is going to get there that's a bit unrealistic. Alignmnent change is not to be taken lightly and should be the result of the actual experiences of a character, not a preplanned course of action.

Well, what happened was...

Cain (my CG->CN rogue) was the rogue I originally built. After leveling her up and playing around, I decided that I wasn't happy with her. For one thing I made her CG, which I thought was stretching it (a good Drow? Meh, unlikely and lame. Not every Drow can be a Drizzit, and I bet half the other Drow are good aligned anyway). I was also unsatisfied with my description and screwed up something very minor on her... a couple skill points, or something like that. Which was just the justification I needed to screw it and start over with a new char.

So I did - Eva, my CN rogue, with a much better description and better roleplaying and like that there. Loved that char. However, she was the other char attacking the guard with Meroth. The less said about my feelings on that incident, the better. But even though there were no witnesses and no one talked, she was found out. <grumble> So, anyway, she's been deleted or banned until EoS is implemented. And I think I'd rather cut off a toe that try to level up ANOTHER Drow rogue to level 6. <shudder> It's just all kinds of awful, seriously. (But I might see if the recent journal bug episode is a good time to do that.) So rather than cut off a toe, I'm transitioning my original level 6 (7 now, finally) rogue to the RP experience I think is a lot better and "realistic" (for lack of a better term, in a fantasy environment. ) and basically be a replacement Eva.

In an earlier thread you justified your actions by saying you are evil, but here you say 1 character is cg and the other is n. Where did the evil come from? I'm confused by alot of the justifications.

I probably used it to say "in general , evil characters..." (well, tried to anyway, obviously it didn't work) . I don't think I've ever justified any of my character's actions by saying they're evil aligned.

[BeyondRedemption]

We need patches...and patience.

I play Patience! Woot!

[Dusty]

After re-reading my last post, I sound like an utter elitist RP nazi :p so for that I would like to apologise. Didn't mean to come off that way but there wasn't too easy a way to say what I wanted to :3