Alignment and Lochwar
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TheSilverHammer
- Dasarian
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Stormknife
- Dasarian Hero
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That's going to rule out a lot of potential recruits right there. I can understand the concern, don't get me wrong, but you're going to have one hell of a difficult time convincing people to abandon factions they're already a part of just to join you.8. You may not have a character in another Faction. Sorry, I don't even want to risk the OOC problems from this.
Draco - "Allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste."
Lorcann - "BACON!"
<*>
Lorcann - "BACON!"
<*>
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TheSilverHammer
- Dasarian
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Now wait a Cotton picking minute....
Why is a chaotic alignment not allowed, but a good one is OK?
Lochwar is totally evil. Not just lawful. The good alignment should be just as distasteful as a chaotic one. Your general requirements should be non-good as well as non-chaotic. No double standards, lochwar is watching you.
Any paladin would quickly lose his paladin status by compromising his or her good principals. I dunno if NWN2 implements this, but in 3e, a paladin who becomes non-good loses all his powers and is essentially a gimpy warrior. No spells, no innate abilities. NWN2 would just probably keep you from gaining another pally level.
With regard to the pantheon of Dasaria, Tyrak is clearly the paladin god (though maybe Rel would do in a pinch). Isn't there some kind of special animosity between Lochwar and Tyrak?
I just can't see a paladin joining with Lochwar for any reason. And no, Lochwar should not be able to have paladin followers. While there is nothing mentioned in the lore as far as allowable classes are concerned, typically MOST deities do NOT have paladin followers. Your choice of gods is very restrictive in most circumstances.
Of course, the DMs might be OK with it. It is their world. I know if I was a DM in charge of gods, any paladin who joined you would have a meteor stike him down and immediately revoke his paladin status. (change your alignment to LN and reset your levels if the core NWN2 rules do not prevent you from using your paladin powers)
Why is a chaotic alignment not allowed, but a good one is OK?
Lochwar is totally evil. Not just lawful. The good alignment should be just as distasteful as a chaotic one. Your general requirements should be non-good as well as non-chaotic. No double standards, lochwar is watching you.
Any paladin would quickly lose his paladin status by compromising his or her good principals. I dunno if NWN2 implements this, but in 3e, a paladin who becomes non-good loses all his powers and is essentially a gimpy warrior. No spells, no innate abilities. NWN2 would just probably keep you from gaining another pally level.
With regard to the pantheon of Dasaria, Tyrak is clearly the paladin god (though maybe Rel would do in a pinch). Isn't there some kind of special animosity between Lochwar and Tyrak?
I just can't see a paladin joining with Lochwar for any reason. And no, Lochwar should not be able to have paladin followers. While there is nothing mentioned in the lore as far as allowable classes are concerned, typically MOST deities do NOT have paladin followers. Your choice of gods is very restrictive in most circumstances.
Of course, the DMs might be OK with it. It is their world. I know if I was a DM in charge of gods, any paladin who joined you would have a meteor stike him down and immediately revoke his paladin status. (change your alignment to LN and reset your levels if the core NWN2 rules do not prevent you from using your paladin powers)
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TheSilverHammer
- Dasarian
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Yes, he can set the rules, but I would still argue that if I were a loyal minion of Lochwar, the only thing I would want of any paladin would be his head on a pike outside the temple.
Minivas: Missed that on the paladins, but even a LG cleric or LG any class.
With respect for discipline: How can you have that when you have people who are morally opposed to you? Sure they may be disciplined, but that doesn't mean they are robots. A LG person (ignoring paladins) would temper the law strongly with mercy and compassion.
Consider this:
3 guards on patrol together come across a guy who was starving and stole chicken from a rich land owner to feed his starving children.
The LE guard would say: He broke the law. Stealing livestock from a noble is punishable by death. He would draw his sword and kill the guy.
The LG guard would say: He broke the law, but he had a good reason to. His family is more important then this chicken is to the noble. He would tell the guy to take his chicken and leave, possibly giving him a few coins and directing him to see help at the local temple. He then would approach the noble and give him a fair price for the chickens the man stole. He would absolutely be opposed to killing him on the spot and would fight the LE guard if the man was attacked. He would try and convince the LN guard (fruitlessly) to let the guy go. If he knew the magistrate was reasonable, he would give in to taking the guy in custody. If he knew the magistrate was evil and would end up killing the guy, he would not yield and not let the guy be captured.
The LN guard would say: He broke the law, stealing livestock from a noble is punishable by death. He would take the prisoner to the magistrate to be executed. He would object to LE guard's desire to kill the guy now simply because it is a breach of protocol. Not because it is unjust, but simply because protocol says the magistrate is the one who orders executions. He would have no doubt, however, that the the guy deserved to die. He would listen non-passionately to the LG guards pleas. Unless the LG guard could come up with a legal reason to let the guy go, he would still drag the guy to the magistrate.
Minivas: Missed that on the paladins, but even a LG cleric or LG any class.
With respect for discipline: How can you have that when you have people who are morally opposed to you? Sure they may be disciplined, but that doesn't mean they are robots. A LG person (ignoring paladins) would temper the law strongly with mercy and compassion.
Consider this:
3 guards on patrol together come across a guy who was starving and stole chicken from a rich land owner to feed his starving children.
The LE guard would say: He broke the law. Stealing livestock from a noble is punishable by death. He would draw his sword and kill the guy.
The LG guard would say: He broke the law, but he had a good reason to. His family is more important then this chicken is to the noble. He would tell the guy to take his chicken and leave, possibly giving him a few coins and directing him to see help at the local temple. He then would approach the noble and give him a fair price for the chickens the man stole. He would absolutely be opposed to killing him on the spot and would fight the LE guard if the man was attacked. He would try and convince the LN guard (fruitlessly) to let the guy go. If he knew the magistrate was reasonable, he would give in to taking the guy in custody. If he knew the magistrate was evil and would end up killing the guy, he would not yield and not let the guy be captured.
The LN guard would say: He broke the law, stealing livestock from a noble is punishable by death. He would take the prisoner to the magistrate to be executed. He would object to LE guard's desire to kill the guy now simply because it is a breach of protocol. Not because it is unjust, but simply because protocol says the magistrate is the one who orders executions. He would have no doubt, however, that the the guy deserved to die. He would listen non-passionately to the LG guards pleas. Unless the LG guard could come up with a legal reason to let the guy go, he would still drag the guy to the magistrate.
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Sunshine
The_Specalist
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Zin
Sunshine
The_Specalist
Damien Faust
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Stormknife
- Dasarian Hero
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I think the nearest people to Lochwar who'd be interested are one alignment shift away, lawful neutral, neutral evil and true neutral, with the intent on becoming lawful evil.
The point is moot since good or chaotic characters wouldn't be interested in worshipping him anyway, since it goes against their inner nature.
No doubt with some rp reason ( always -some- reason eh? ) you could make exceptions. I'm not really sure what anyone is trying to prove with this discussion
Also working for the church and worshipping the god are two different things.
The point is moot since good or chaotic characters wouldn't be interested in worshipping him anyway, since it goes against their inner nature.
No doubt with some rp reason ( always -some- reason eh? ) you could make exceptions. I'm not really sure what anyone is trying to prove with this discussion
Also working for the church and worshipping the god are two different things.
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Chia
- Dasarian Scout
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Wyvern wrote:Remember a cleric could only be one alignment shift in either direction from their god, so you couldn't have a LG cleric of Lochwar. As for non-clerics, it's a fairly safe bet that anyone who is LG would find very little about the Lochwar faith to be tolerable.
This just in: Lochwar is Lawful Neutral!Minuvas wrote:The Patriarch of Dasaria, is (or was, depending on your IC knowledge). a Lawful Good follower of Lochwar as an example. Lochwar is thrice as Lawful as he is Evil.
In other news, the King of Gods is reported missing after a visit from a well-known member of the clergy. Authorities refuse continuing the investigation after several more disappearances of local law enforcement and governmental officials.
More to come after this report on unusual frogfall patterns occurring near Cear.
I am not contrary!
I think we're debating a moot point.
There are no LG characters in the Lochwar faction, and those that will be would be extremely scrutinized to a point that they could not maintain these loyalties for very long without suffering, and most certainly without advancement.
The Good thing about being an Evil Faction is that you can manipulate "Good" player members in the faction (icly) because they don't have to know if its "evil" doings. Honesty is far more a pillar of principle of the "Good" Factions.
Its most certainly possible, although highly improbable.
There are no LG characters in the Lochwar faction, and those that will be would be extremely scrutinized to a point that they could not maintain these loyalties for very long without suffering, and most certainly without advancement.
The Good thing about being an Evil Faction is that you can manipulate "Good" player members in the faction (icly) because they don't have to know if its "evil" doings. Honesty is far more a pillar of principle of the "Good" Factions
.Its most certainly possible, although highly improbable.
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TheSilverHammer
- Dasarian
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2cp
Not every "evil" aligned character walks around wringing their hands while cackling insanely (there are a few, but not all of them).
Some evil aligned characters do not think they are "evil" but rather that they are willing to do what other, weaker souls, are not.
Some may go as far as to feel that for the greater "good" such things must be done.
Black and white might be easy to define, but I find gray a lot more interesting to role play.
Not every "evil" aligned character walks around wringing their hands while cackling insanely (there are a few, but not all of them).
Some evil aligned characters do not think they are "evil" but rather that they are willing to do what other, weaker souls, are not.
Some may go as far as to feel that for the greater "good" such things must be done.
Black and white might be easy to define, but I find gray a lot more interesting to role play.
- Aeodhin Truesteel, blade for hire
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- Rolan Derlson, Death Seeker of Culnul
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obsoletenihilist
- Dasarian Scout
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Seeing as how the big L is a god of trickery I'd say he's whatever people want him to be. Just as long as they end up furthering his gains through deceit and manipulation of their faith.
Orcs that follow him may just like the survival of the fittest aspect. Governments that use him may just only follow his tyrannical and absolute law sides. Sociopaths may follow him because of great employment opportunities and a dental plan.
Different viewpoints for different folks really. Just because one faction says their god is this does not mean another faction can believe differently. Your lawful neutral Lochwarite loves to enforce laws, your lawful evil loves to enforce laws for his own gain, and your neutral evil only loves the laws of Lochwar that he can manipulate while at the same time not bothering to follow laws that he cannot manipulate... but then again, Lochwar is about survival of the fittest so who's to say going around laws is a bad thing if you beat the weaker for using that way?
Then it goes into different faiths that worship the same god going into hostilities.. Orthodox Lochwarites vs Puritan Lochwarites vs The One True Lochwarites vs Lochwar and His Amazing Friends vs The Unauthorized but Totally True Faith of Lochwar, etc.
All in all, why bother arguing in forums about it? Get IC with the arguing and debating, that's where the fun happens!
Orcs that follow him may just like the survival of the fittest aspect. Governments that use him may just only follow his tyrannical and absolute law sides. Sociopaths may follow him because of great employment opportunities and a dental plan.
Different viewpoints for different folks really. Just because one faction says their god is this does not mean another faction can believe differently. Your lawful neutral Lochwarite loves to enforce laws, your lawful evil loves to enforce laws for his own gain, and your neutral evil only loves the laws of Lochwar that he can manipulate while at the same time not bothering to follow laws that he cannot manipulate... but then again, Lochwar is about survival of the fittest so who's to say going around laws is a bad thing if you beat the weaker for using that way?
Then it goes into different faiths that worship the same god going into hostilities.. Orthodox Lochwarites vs Puritan Lochwarites vs The One True Lochwarites vs Lochwar and His Amazing Friends vs The Unauthorized but Totally True Faith of Lochwar, etc.
All in all, why bother arguing in forums about it? Get IC with the arguing and debating, that's where the fun happens!