Tharon quest tweaks.

The_Four_Horsemen · Post by **The_Four_Horsemen** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:15 am

Well I must say I think the tweaks went a bit too far on the impossible side. I was able to cruise through and solo the second and 3rd floors, now I died 3 times at the entry door. Every hit is a dispell magic, High HP, High AC, High AB.

Elvith · Post by **Elvith** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:20 am

Dasaria is a RP server, quests are meant for parties, you dont need to solo stuff for xp to make god characters. It is feasible for a pary of 14-18s to do that quest, which is how it should be right? After saying that, I'm glad that there's still a quest out there that I cant solo, makes RPing for companions worthwhile. Having said that, It's kinda hypocritical of me cause I do have a character that is a bit of a powerbuild, but I've been trying to move away from the whole soloing stuff.

The_Four_Horsemen · Post by **The_Four_Horsemen** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:02 am

Yea, well the character I tried it with was a powerbuild... not a mooid or a cleric but still. And there is no point in trying to party when the only person on the server is yourself... the server is totally dead for the evening pacific timezone, but that is a different rant.

Elvith wrote:Dasaria is a RP server, quests are meant for parties, you dont need to solo stuff for xp to make god characters. It is feasible for a pary of 14-18s to do that quest, which is how it should be right? After saying that, I'm glad that there's still a quest out there that I cant solo, makes RPing for companions worthwhile. Having said that, It's kinda hypocritical of me cause I do have a character that is a bit of a powerbuild, but I've been trying to move away from the whole soloing stuff.

kikkelipoika · Post by **kikkelipoika** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:17 pm

Given how difficult the quest is, i find it rahter silly that the quest reward is only 1000 xp. At that level, if you die even once there, the quest is not worth doing xp wise. If you die twice then you end up losing xp instead of gaining it. Afterall, you can get 900xp just for soloing the trolls. To compare the tharon quest to earlier dungeons; Bugbear cave quests are worth 1800 xp, which is almost double tharon, and is a low level dungeon. The tower i think was worth 1500 xp, and orcs are worth 2500. Also the loot in the tharon temple doesn't seem to match the difficulty.

Wired · Post by **Wired** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:43 pm

Good suggestions, I'll take a look.

Bumping the XP granted for completing the quest seems reasonable enough. It is, however, a much shorter dungeon than the Shai quest, which can take three or four hours.

I'm a little perplexed by the loot comment as this quest currently has the highest-level loot available in the game, including high-level crafting drops not yet found elsewhere. You do need to make it to the end to claim it, though.

Before this was release, #1 suggestion was adding high-level areas. This one is supposed to be hard.

Some soloable hunting areas are in the works, but this isn't one of them.

Sidebar/spoiler on difficulty changes:

The Corrupted Defenders were recently robbed of their death magic and their martial prowess was bumped a few levels in exchange. PM me if you want to know more about their stats, but I'll tell you now, they're not particularly fearsome compared to your average level 14+ player's. They are clerics, and will use their own natural dispells. The bosses will do nastier things, but they're the bosses.

Thracius Trueblade · Post by **Thracius Trueblade** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:11 pm

DM Wired wrote:Good suggestions, I'll take a look.

Bumping the XP granted for completing the quest seems reasonable enough. It is, however, a much shorter dungeon than the Shai quest, which can take three or four hours.

I'm a little perplexed by the loot comment as this quest currently has the highest-level loot available in the game, including high-level crafting drops not yet found elsewhere. You do need to make it to the end to claim it, though.

Before this was release, #1 suggestion was adding high-level areas. This one is supposed to be hard.

Some soloable hunting areas are in the works, but this isn't one of them.

Sidebar/spoiler on difficulty changes:

The Corrupted Defenders were recently robbed of their death magic and their martial prowess was bumped a few levels in exchange. PM me if you want to know more about their stats, but I'll tell you now, they're not particularly fearsome compared to your average level 14+ player's. They are clerics, and will use their own natural dispells. The bosses will do nastier things, but they're the bosses.

With regards to the difficulty, I like it how it is now. I don't think I can solo it, even with my cleric. Did it the other day with Bodok, and it took us a good couple of hours. It was pretty hard all the way, and we had to take it fairly slowly to avoid dying frequently. Still, the final boss managed to kill me once, but we respawned and managed to take him out the second time. For me, it was fun to have such a challenge. However, I know that my build on that character is way overpowered, and for most people, it may go beyond merely a challenging level of difficulty, and more into the realms of impossibility. I do think the XP should definitely be higher, though. It took 2 hours to do that quest, and though it was fun, the fact that I died (losing 850xp) meant the net gain for me was 150xp. I could have got more than that in about 5 minutes by doing the seamstresses quest.

The loot was variable. In one room after the first boss, we found a mithral AND an adamantine ingot, although that may have just been extreme luck. However, the fabled 'mysterious apparatii' in the final room were a bit disappointing. One had a few fairly useless bits in it, and the other one was just empty

In regards to soloing it..... as wired said, I'm not sure that's the point. For soloing you've got trolls, and also bandersnatches now. You can get 900xp from the two of those, which are pretty quick and easy, and the bandersnatches actually do give some exp, even at level 17, so you can expect to make an additional 200-300xp from kills while you're doing it.

It's nice to have soloable areas, but we also need areas that can only be done with a party. Almost all MMO's have these sort of areas, and they are usually the most challenging parts of the game. They can only be completed by a well balanced and organised group. Dasaria doesn't really have any of those areas yet, but at least the Tharon temple is a step in the right direction.

kikkelipoika · Post by **kikkelipoika** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:23 pm

DM Wired wrote:I'm a little perplexed by the loot comment as this quest currently has the highest-level loot available in the game, including high-level crafting drops not yet found elsewhere. You do need to make it to the end to claim it, though.

Perhaps we just didn't look hard enough then

Wired · Post by **Wired** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:27 am

I made some adjustments today -- I doubt you'll find it any easier, but you may well find it more rewarding.

kikkelipoika · Post by **kikkelipoika** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:01 am

hmmmmm...... i now decide to solo it one day. Time to start gathering resources and better equipment for "project tharon".

Oh, and did you add a dialogue option to accept the quest without getting an allignment shift towards good? Maybe even allow an evil option for us?

Bobzim · Post by **Bobzim** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:12 pm

One tweak I would suggest is to slightly lower the SEARCH level to discover traps. My rogue has a search of 26 (lvl 16 rogue) and he often does not see traps until it's too late, for him and the party.

Perhaps more importantly, though, is that there MUST be some payoff for finishing the quest besides the 2k XP. The treasure in Markel's room is all broken. Nothing in the apparati, or the gold piles, or the weapon racks. And the armour racks are insta-death traps that are not shown so cannot be disarmed. That seems broken.

Another big problem: If a party fails to complete the quest (i.e., can't kill Markel) then they are stuck in the crypt. It's true that a rogue can sneak into Markel's room and steal the key from the box. But it seems that the door out should be unlocked so a party that wants to give up is not stuck inside the crypt and doesn't have to fight their way out back through all those undead. Chances are they already wiped at least once.

Also, if that party DOES leave the crypt via the door to the main level, then the script to get back into the second floor is broken (i.e., the door will not yield for that party anymore and they cannot finish the quest/try again). I think if they did not finish the quest, they should either be able to get back in through the crypt door OR they should at least be able to get back into the second floor door and start over.

GREAT dungeon. Very challenging, even for a small group. Just needs some minor fixes.

Wired · Post by **Wired** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:05 am

Yes, there was an issue with the loot there, including the trap. It was fixed this morning and should be available after the next reset.

I'll have to think about the quest progression. Some of the things you are citing are intentional, they were intended to discourage persons being in the area for reasons other than completing the quest.

Bobzim · Post by **Bobzim** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:11 am

Today I tried the quest with a party of 3. We made it to the crypt but wiped trying to kill Markel. I snuck in and stole the "Exit" key with my rogue, and we left. But now I am unable to get back inside to finish the quest. So I lost 800 XP and cannot get back in to finish the job.

You should probably unlock the Exit door. No reason to have to kill Markel to get out of crypt (or steal the key). Also, should allow re-entry to try again later that server reset (i.e., if not finished quest yet). Locking the area to prevent re-entry after the quest is complete makes sense. Locking it prior to that is unfair.

My quest journal currently says "You have located Brother Gryst, however you were too late to save him". And now the dialogue with pastor has no completion and the door is locked to me, offering only the "Walk Away" option. That seems to be broken, even if intentional.

I understand keeping any loot farmers out of the crypt. But that should not include players who just want to get back inside to "finish" the quest. Most will be quite discouraged to lose a lot of XP from multiple wipes, and not be able to go back and try again to get that XP back.

Also, what of the the possibility of lowering the search on the traps just a tad? I think the traps don't appear very quickly and result in unfair killing of entire party (or at least the rogue). I mean 26 skill in search is a lot - max for level.

Wired · Post by **Wired** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:29 am

I already moved some traps around, so let's just see what happens after a reset.

Death and dismemberment is ever a risk, as is failure, it's part of what keeps it interesting. Fortunately you'll get another chance soon.

ps: It's "Martek."

Bobzim · Post by **Bobzim** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:39 am

Yeah, sorry bout that. Martek.

Found a bug in the quest dialogue. I was heading back to see the new trap changes and I started the dialogue with Pastor after getting the quest from Sara. I chose the last option, just to see what would happen and because I didn't want another good alignment shift (i.e., the option for him to give me his coffers). He attacked me, so I stealthed and he then proceeded to attack the rest of the NPCs in the Cathedral. They dispatched him fairly easily. Now there is now way to get inside, since there is no Pastor (probably until next reset).

Wired · Post by **Wired** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:55 am

Properly the tragic Brother Balthazar Martek, once renowned as of the greatest scholars of our time.

Although it's homage for those of you who remember what Tracey Raye Hickman was doing -long- before Dragonlance. 50xp to the first person who can identify the following, "The place is set, but no man knows the time."