Does the community want the server to update to MoTB?

[ChikenKannon]

No,

I think it will raise more problems than it's worth. Ontop of that I personally don't have the money to buy it.

[Starkwold]

I will abstain from voting, but my opinion is pretty well known, I believe. The tools (tilesets, creatures, new toys, etcetera) that MoTB offers are exciting. I could build some pretty neat areas with them, and would love to incorporate that into Dasaria.

However, I remember clearly the transition in Dasaria 1 where we implemented a hakpak, that also had very many toys (tilesets, placeables, etcetera) that were, at the time, in high demand. A hakpak, back in NWN1, automatically cut off a large portion of the playerbase that would have to download a file to play, much like our PWCs. Hakpaks in NWN2 are really quite different; they can be incorporated into a PWC rather easily (provided they aren't too big).

Now, MoTB is different because it's pretty much a regulated hakpak. Everyone can easily acquire a copy. I remember distinctly that SoU and HoTU were quite successfull, and the installation and implementation of these two expansion packs did not grossly affect Dasaria's population. However, NWN2 is a different platform in many ways than NWN, and the two games cannot really be compared in terms of demographics, so I remain hesitant.

Dasaria 1's hakpak was, without a doubt, a serious blow to the server's health. The population really nose-dived after that point in time.

Granted, we are faced with an entirely different scenario. Dasaria 1 enjoyed a fairly healthy population (we won't go into the item wipe and other variables that contributed to the server's general decline), and the implementation of the hakpak pretty much cut off any new blood. The old players that we had persisted, before they, too (as players are wont to do), departed.

At this juncture, with Dasaria 2, we are in a position where it can't really hurt us anymore than we already are. It may be argued that MoTB's installation cannot adversely affect Dasaria's population, and indeed, might contribute to it (at least, that is what Ebannon's argument seems to be).

This isn't really a concrete argument or theory, more along the lines of a stream of ideas or thoughts. Why are we updating to MoTB? Is it because we're trying to fix something? If we are, is the solution correct? Will this solution (which is arguably permanent) be effective? If we are trying to address a problem, are there other solutions or avenues we aren't properly exploring?

If we are certain that the implementation of MoTB will not adversely affect the health and potential longevity of Dasaria II, then I say go for it. However, if the staff and the community are rooting for MoTB out of a drive to improve server population or make the server more playable, I would posit that we brainstorm for a few more solutions before taking a leap we cannot easily retreat from.

[Nathen Arnes]

I really agree with Falcon that we should definitely look over quite a few other options before jumping on this one.

I do think MotB is a good idea. I may not be the most knowledgable about it all though, I would definitely like it to be MotB, considering i have it, and my characters are all low level anyway. (I'd like to start them over if we did, which is just my choice)

Though is there some way to put in the PWC to just make it not possible to even choose MotB spells or feats (just not have the show up in character developement screens). I don't see why not, if you can prohibit races and classes and what not. And that would help out some hassle with spellcasters and stuff right?

On a lighter note, i just found out today that my flaming red/orange haired Vick looks bald to anyone without MotB. This travesty must be corrected immediately.

[Wyvern]

I would like to stress that this poll is simply to gauge opinion. It certainly wont result in an immediate update (or not) depending solely on the outcome of this poll. Keep the replies coming, I guarantee that all of them will feed into the decision making process, whenever that may be.

Thanks to you all, keep it coming.

[Ebannon]

At this juncture, with Dasaria 2, we are in a position where it can't really hurt us anymore than we already are. It may be argued that MoTB's installation cannot adversely affect Dasaria's population, and indeed, might contribute to it (at least, that is what Ebannon's argument seems to be).

Yes that's what I was trying to say. I hope that it isn't taken as ungrateful complaining, I understand the reasons and appreciate the work the staff has put into making the server compliant with both versions, however, I take that the main reason for all that effort is that we don't want to scare off or disuade the server population by including MOTB...

...however it seems we may be turning people away by walling players off from official content. I believe looking at what servers are popular will show that MOTB isn't turning away players.

Will adding MOTB in and of itself draw people in? -- As someone pointed out the least popular servers also have MOTB so its doubtful. However, I don't see it hurting the existing server population, and as previously stated, I believe we may be losing potential players when they see the expansion is not supported.

The existing server population, either has or probably should get the expansion. MOTB costs about as much as a good dinner or a tank of gas, and you don't burn through the game in an day or week like the former two. If you're money situation is such that you're unable to budget an extra thirty dollars or so, thats one thing, and I'm not going to begrudge anyone for choosing food over entertainment. However, I have a hard time believing theres alot of people with this problem. $30-35 dollars for hours of entertainment is pretty reasonable.

Its a great server and a great population, I enjoy playing here. I understand the caution, but don't see allowing additional content as hurting the server at all, so I'm going for "yes."

[Rob]

Dasaria's server population is going to suffer if we require MotB to play here.

Right out of the shoot Dasaria is going to loose players who are not able or unwilling to upgrade. Who knows how many people that will be? If this poll is an indicator, that could be as much as 20% of the player base.

Dasaria will have a smaller base from which to attract new players. The number of people who own MotB is always going to be small than the number who do not. I've personally recommended Dasaria to several people looking for a server which does not require MotB. Dasaria seems to be one of the few servers filling that niche.

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We also have a few disgruntled players who are waiting on Obsidian to fix the transition crashing problem before returning to Dasaria. Will they be willing to give more money to a company that has left them hanging for 1.5 years?

I foresee us losing new players, current players, and old players if we require MotB. Let's hope there's a lot of MotB users waiting for Dasaria to upgrade before they play here to fill that void and give Dasaria the population bump it needs.

[Stormknife]

Throwing these out there.

Reasons for:
- There's already compatibility issues between players with MotB and players who don't (the white rings of darkvision, ability of players with MotB to completely destroy their character by taking a feat, spell, or class that they shouldn't, some MotB spells working once upon a time and being used despite DMs saying we shouldn't). There's no indication that these are going away, or even that they won't get worse. Requiring MotB would hopefully resolve these.

- Increasing player options. There's folks out there who straight up won't play if they can't have a particular race or class.

Against:
- Some of us would be giving Obsidian more money.

- Balance issues. We'll always have these.

- Half-drow.

- It may well break the hell out of the current areas.


Random thoughts:
Just citing my experience from NWN1 here: one of the big reasons I went to Das1 was because it had both expansion packs installed. I wanted my nifty spells and prestige classes (even as restricted as they were at the time I started). The fact of the matter is that being MotB enabled is going to attract the players who are already more likely to stick with NWN2. Yes, it cuts us off from a certain portion of NWN2s player base, but that's the portion that's as likely to never come back after they crash while transitioning into North Cear.

[hannahcoldkiller]

I guess I could go either way. I with Ron that by updating to MOTB we are shutting people out while at the moment everyone can at least play. I have been monitoring the forums and there are people who are looking for just NWN2, but there are also people looking for servers with MOTB.

The additional point that Ebannon may or may not have been trying to make was that the most populated servers use MOTB therefore a greater majority of those who access player worlds through Gamespy have MOTB. I'd have to do some of that fancy math to know for certain.

On balance issues, the new prestige and base classes mostly tilt toward divine classes, especially clerics, which will make them even more uber. I like them, but that is a touchy subject with people. The two mage prestige classes will most likely not get included because of their FR component.

I'd really like to play with all the toolset goodies.

Either way, I think we should petition Obsidian to make the two compatible and solve all our problems through a patch (fat chance).

[ErictheRed]

I voted no (because I don't own MotB and didn't plan on buying it), but I don't really care that much. If I have to buy MotB to play in Das, I will.

On the other hand, I can't imagine that requiring people to have MotB will actually increase server population. Also, there are a lot of cheesy spells/abilities/classes/races that I don't want Das to be associated with, personally. And finally, there's the whole issue of wanting to "re-roll" characters to take advantage of other feats and spells that will irk me to no end. I reroll enough characters to begin with!

I'm 99% this would never happen, but if MotB were to be implemented with a character wipe I would probably take to the idea more. That way we can all start off with the new classes, feats, whatever together. However, I'm concerned that a wipe would do much more harm than good to the population. But maybe not--waayy back when I played Asheron's Call and they opened up a new server, hundreds (or thousands?) of people jumped at the chance to start over from scratch with their buddies.

P.s. I really, REALLY don't like the idea of making divine casters (and especially clerics) more overpowered than they already are. What is Obsidian thinking?

[Zephis]

I highly doubt eric, that MOTB will make the Pat Mcgroyn's and other stupidly named or played chars from being created.
Humanity is and allways be a vast sea of stupidity.

[Maevan2]

Dasaria's server population is going to suffer if we require MotB to play here.

Would it? Nobody really knows. But from what i know from another server they didn't regret switching to MOTB.

Right out of the shoot Dasaria is going to loose players who are not able or unwilling to upgrade. Who knows how many people that will be? If this poll is an indicator, that could be as much as 20% of the player base.

It is true that Das would loose a number of players. But it might gain new ones. I don't expect that just switching to MOTB would make the server crowded again. But does Das have a choice? Can Das afford not to take this risk? I think the number of players that don't play on Das is bigger than the ones that play here because they don't have and won't buy MOTB. But that is just my oppinion.

And there is no need to be worried about Genasi running around: if(player-race == genesai) bootPlayer(). (actually something that should have been done for drows a long time ago ). And balance? I i don't think i have seen anything "terrible "in MOTB except for the Stormlord. The other classes are more or less just different in my oppinion. And i can't rememeber any spells either. Most of the spells that make casters so powefull are already in the game anyway.

[Socrates' Bastard Son]

As I said in the other thread, I vote yet. I would like to see MOTB on Das.

[Evelond Formos]

I voted no, even though I have MotB. I find it hard to disagree with Rob. Server population is, right now, probably our biggest problem, and with close analysis it can be seen that MotB will only make that problem worse.

[Peregrinus]

What classes are so powerful in MotB that it would be imbalanced? Of the base classes added, Spirit Shaman and Favored Soul, they are both, from a powergamer's perspective, weaker than Druid or Cleric where they get their spell lists. Of the PrCs, possibly only Stormlord... the others, not so much. Spells and feats? Hardly overpowering, more utility than anything.

As to server population, that's hard to say either way. You can't know unless something is tried...

[Maevan2]

I voted no, even though I have MotB. I find it hard to disagree with Rob. Server population is, right now, probably our biggest problem, and with close analysis it can be seen that MotB will only make that problem worse.

I just wonder how that analysis looks like. So far i have seen only oppinions that claim one thing or the other. I think nobody really knows what will happen. And that is the biggest dilemma of all.

I also wonder why the MOTB experient (running an MOTB server while the module was still NWN) was stopped. Did it cause problems or did the staff just think it wouldn't be fair to let some players have access to more stuff? Or...?