Does the community want the server to update to MoTB?

[Evelond Formos]

People who aren't here aren't going to vote, so the last six will bring about skewed results.

[Atharin]

My vote's somewhere inbetween: Recover the playerbase first, then consider upgrading to MotB.

[oaknott]

People who aren't here aren't going to vote, so the last six will bring about skewed results.

To Eve

However skewed you think the data may be it will still be data. What matters is what the DM team do with that information. As I said when I suggested the poll, more weight should be given to the views of existing players.

Several posters asked for actual numbers. This is one way to get that data. If you don't like it come up with a better idea.

To All,

There are a number of people who continue to look into the bulletin boards who used to play but aren't playing on DAS now. I for one have never played a NWN game without looking through the bulletin board that goes with the server before playing and I suspect that there are a lot of players who do the same. These are the people you need to attract, just trying to keep the current player base happy is going kill the server because of natural wastage. You MUST get new people in, you should try to get old players back.

It seems to me that there are a number of posters on this board who would rather sit there and moan about player numbers rather than actually try to do anything positive about it and there are some of these who prefer to shoot down any positive ideas suggested rather than risk any kind of change at all. That is really off-putting to new or returning players and will kill the server even more quickly.

If you want to re-build the server you need to get more players in and you need to resolve transition crashes. The transition crashes on DAS2 are the worst I have experienced on any server any where and I have tried dozens, if not hundreds. Its no good saying its a problem with NWN2 when you have quests that involve more than 10 transitions to complete. It IS a game engine limitation, Obsidian aren't ever going to fix it so build around it and rebuild accordingly.

My view on rebuilding DAS2 involves 4 simple suggestions:
1 put a limit on any quest of six transitions to complete it
2 utilise the world map facility so players can choose to reduce the transitions they go through.
3 remove level limits from all quests (not sure if you haven't done this already)
4 adopt MoTB

DAS 2 has the potential to be a world class server, don't let it die.

[Vahene]

I think I'm still waiting on a good answer to one of Falcon's questions.

Why are we wanting to upgrade to MOTB?

The content might be nice, but that can't be the only reason. If the reason is because "well, we're suffering population wise", again, I'll repeat that I think we need to know the VALID reasons for that, not simply excuses. An excuse would be "I see 2 people on and I log off" whereas a valid reason would be "I'm simply too busy at school to play currently."

K

[Thracius Trueblade]

I think I'm still waiting on a good answer to one of Falcon's questions.

Why are we wanting to upgrade to MOTB?

The content might be nice, but that can't be the only reason. If the reason is because "well, we're suffering population wise", again, I'll repeat that I think we need to know the VALID reasons for that, not simply excuses. An excuse would be "I see 2 people on and I log off" whereas a valid reason would be "I'm simply too busy at school to play currently."

K

Why is "I see 2 people on and I log off" not a valid reason?

[superpoweredchimp]

Okay people. Take a look at the top servers on Gamespy. It's 1:45 in the afternoon here, and the Forgotten Realms server and Dragoncoast server are running with around 40 players in them, each. And yes, they are MotB servers.

Of course, that still doesn't prove that all our problems will be solved. But come on, claiming that MotB will really do that much damage to the server? I have my doubts.

[superpoweredchimp]

Plus, it's cheap, too.

[oaknott]

Why are we wanting to upgrade to MOTB?

Why do I want MoTB? Well personally, some of the new classes suit my style of play better and its a royal pain in the ar$e when you develop your character and suddenly realise you took some MoTB stuff in your leveling up and the character doesn't work properly any more. I really have too much in my life to sift through and try to remember whats MoTB and whats not and I'm not taking MoTB off my computer because the other server I like to play on requires MoTB and it doesn't crash like DAS does, so at the moment that other server is a better choice. Resolve the issues I've already stated and DAS will be better.

Perhaps a better question would be

Why don't you want to adopt MoTB?

It'll bring in some useful stuff, and if you keep the level 20 cap it wont bring in anything very unbalancing at all and it might just bring the server out of the doldrums its in right now.

[Elvith]

Last I heard TFR and DC were places where items, gold, and xp are controlled tightly like in wow, and take serious grinding to get. Why they're liked is that they got this thing where the players make and run their own plots, and I assume this would deepen the RP involvement, though by consequent I can't see any of these places having realistic lore. My schoolwork has kept me offline for most of my time, but I still had alot of good times here so I wanna see it prosper without me. I can't suggest what to do, but I remember that alot of times the RP could get quite shallow ingame, with the real stuff being the forums. I dunno how this can be changed, fixed, made more appealing, but consider that what players want is to make a difference and to have fun.

[Thracius Trueblade]

Last I heard TFR and DC were places where items, gold, and xp are controlled tightly like in wow

I wouldn't say that WoW is particularly strict on any of those things. A while back they increased the exp from quests for level 30-60, and decreased the amount of exp needed to level up between 20-60. Gold can hardly be 'tightly controlled' when you can buy ridiculous amounts of it on numerous websites that are advertised extensively ingame by spammers. Even powerful items are more proliferate these days with the introduction of 'welfare epics' aka. PvP arena equipment. Not that I'm complaining, in many ways these changes have made the game more streamlined, allowing players to reach the end-game content more quickly. And endgame content is where WoW really shines

Making exp/gold/items more scarce wouldn't particularly improve the server, I think, UNLESS it was also accompanied by a great expansion in content. Because at the end of the day, that is why all the old players are leaving. CONTENT. You can only grind through the Cathedral of Tharon so many times before you get sick of it. I can't face making a new character anymore because the thought of having to do kalem and bugbears umpteen times YET AGAIN just fills me with dread (or should I say yawns). Even when it's your first damn character, to get anywhere you are forced to redo the same content over and over. I bet if you go and log onto either of those mentioned servers, you'll find it has a lot more content than there is on Dasaria.

And THAT is why, at the moment, I'm playing WoW and not Dasaria (ok, I log on a couple of times a week maybe, but that's it). Despite the fact I have invested hours and hours of my time into the game already, I know there will always be new stuff for me to do on WoW. Whereas Dasaria just can't offer that, it feels tired and worn out to me.

The other reason for endgame content is as an incentive to keep playing. Why should I keep playing WoW? Well, because if I do, I'll be able to get my epic flying mount, and maybe some tier 4/5/6 epic gear if I can get in a decent raiding guild. I can explore new areas that they are constantly adding to the game, and go back and take a look at the ones I've missed out on so far. I can play a variety of PvP gametypes against other players. When the new expansion comes out, I'll be able to go to Northrend and get to level 80. And who knows what will be on offer after that.

Why should I keep playing Dasaria? For RP with a dead playerbase? To mindlessly grind dungeons over and over again FOR NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER? To live in the vain hope of doing some PvP against other level 20s? I don't think so. The point is, Das has little to offer you once you hit level 20. Level 20 might as well be the point where your character keels over and dies of old age.

And as for the campaign.... I'm aware there's some kind of storyline going on, but it's still stuck in the same bloody phase that it was a year ago! Godammit, are you EVER going to move the story on? Hardly anything has happened since the campaign began. At this point, it should be in full swing, but it's still in the 'intro' phase where nobody really knows exactly what is happening. Some mysterious guy has attacked Cear about a gazillion times, without really pushing the defences or revealing anything about himself. In a display of what I can only call UTTER INCOMPETENCE, the talon/magnus, the supposed 'elite' of the empire, have discovered absolutely sod all about this threat, despite the fact the attacks occur on a weekly basis AT LEAST. Oh, and the old governor got assassinated and replaced by the empress (zomg!). We can't wait to see where that is going to lead..... no, seriously, I mean it, we really would like to see where it's going to lead..... please tell us.... Seriously guys, how can you wonder why people aren't playing when the main plot of the game is so stagnant?

Then there's the transition crashes, which I personally have never found that bad, but I hear are crippling for some people. It's been suggested that other servers don't crash as much, and that there is something that could be done about it. This could be a major reason why new players don't really stick around for long.

So there we are. Lack of content, stagnant storyline, crippling transition crashes. Those are the reasons why population is at an all time low. I don't really think upgrading or not upgrading will make a difference, it's a very minor change compared to those three massive issues. Fix those things, and people will have a reason to play again. Then it will only be natural for the population to rise once more.

If there's one thing that's obvious, it's that many people ARE still interested in Dasaria (take a look at how many people post on threads like this), and want to see it succeed. If the various problems are addressed, I have no doubt whatsoever that these players would come flooding back.

[Vahene]

The myth that you can do nothing at level 20 is just that, a myth.

We had some of the best RPing in some of the most dangerous areas in Dasaria 1 with a group of level 20's. But, we also had some the best RPing in some of the least dangerous areas (like in a town or tavern) in Dasaria 1 with a mixed group of all levels. A level doesn't designate that you can or can't RP any further. If you don't want to bother to find the RPing, or start the RPing, that's something completely different. Quests are not the end all to this game. We won't die because we don't get Epic levels, for example. Levels do not matter.

K

[Thracius Trueblade]

The myth that you can do nothing at level 20 is just that, a myth.

We had some of the best RPing in some of the most dangerous areas in Dasaria 1 with a group of level 20's. But, we also had some the best RPing in some of the least dangerous areas (like in a town or tavern) in Dasaria 1 with a mixed group of all levels. A level doesn't designate that you can or can't RP any further. If you don't want to bother to find the RPing, or start the RPing, that's something completely different. Quests are not the end all to this game. We won't die because we don't get Epic levels, for example. Levels do not matter.

K

EDITED: the original post I made was waaaay too long

In your opinion, levels don't matter. However, I am sure to most people on this server, they do. I never said anywhere I wanted epic levels, because I don't. 20 is more than enough for Dasaria. All I said was that I personally have become very bored with having to repeat the same content over and over, not just at level 20, but at all levels of gameplay.

I know you love RP, Vahene, and that's great, but there's a lot of other people on the server who are interested in other aspects of the game. You can't just dismiss their opinions because you personally aren't bothered about it. This isn't your personal server, and if it wants to succeed, it needs to cater to the tastes of everyone involved.

[hannahcoldkiller]

So there we are. Lack of content, stagnant storyline, crippling transition crashes. Those are the reasons why population is at an all time low. I don't really think upgrading or not upgrading will make a difference, it's a very minor change compared to those three massive issues. Fix those things, and people will have a reason to play again. Then it will only be natural for the population to rise once more.

If there's one thing that's obvious, it's that many people ARE still interested in Dasaria (take a look at how many people post on threads like this), and want to see it succeed. If the various problems are addressed, I have no doubt whatsoever that these players would come flooding back.

Ok, so I agree with you on all of this, your WoW analogies aside. As much as I enjoy RP in the sense that K is talking about, it's very difficult to do. It's impossible to do when no one's on. The only character that I can just stand around doing talking RP is my little gnome, Titus. The other ones I need something to work around. When our faction was going strong, Hannah had something to do, things she wanted, and people she needed to talk to so RP was a little easier (and very very fun). At the time the DM support was phenomenal and probably would have continued if the faction hadn't fallen apart because of RL issues from what I can speculate.

I spent two hours running through the initial quests tonight while taking screenshots for a newbie guide. I didn't see one person during the whole time. Oh well, sometimes people are on, sometimes not. I did notice that for what it's worth, there is A LOT of content in this world. All of the initial Fed EX stuff does serve to introduce the world and are fun the first time around. But most of them are not fun to replay. Right now, you can do all of these quests in a row and level your character to 3 without grinding. What is missing at the moment are quests like Kalem and bugbears that are generally enjoyable to play several times without being tedious (though they do have limits). Ideally, would be to have quests at every level of difficulty where you only have to play them once or twice to get to the next level.

Obviously this is not something that's easy for students and working people to do in their spare time. My intent with posting the "is Dasaria dead" thread was that I wanted to get some reassurances from the community and more importantly the staff. I can only speak for myself and say from what I know people are working on new content and higher level content. I'm personally invested in this thing, but I want to know that something is going to come out of it if I put more of my time into learning the toolset and developing character and quest stories and whatnot.

[Nathen Arnes]

If you're correct then maybe instead of pushing to recruit new players we should be trying to recruit more DMs to either help the story move along faster or just make more stuff happen more often.

I kind of like things not happening too often, as I'm a fairly busy person. It's nice that if I only play once a week I usually don't miss a bunch of plot and never know whats going on. But I bet most players play more than I do. So I can see how more things happening would be alot of fun for someone with the time to be on alot.

I know Asylum gets on quite a bit, but.... is Asylum our only DM? That's the only one I've ever met.

[DM Asylum]

I know Asylum gets on quite a bit, but.... is Asylum our only DM? That's the only one I've ever met.

There are others on the DM team besides myself, I just happen to be the most active one. Rest assured that there are other staff members still working. Whether or not we're receiving our fair share of twizzlers for it is up for debate.

My intent with posting the "is Dasaria dead" thread was that I wanted to get some reassurances from the community and more importantly the staff.

I have refrained from posting in that thread because I wanted to see what people thought on the subject. My opinion remains firm that Dasaria is not dead. Perhaps we are at a low point in population and/or productivity... that too is up for debate. However, by no means is the server dead.

I think it's also only fair to let people know that what they say is being listened to. If you don't see a change of pace immediately because of something you suggest, it's not because we've dismissed it. Your words do matter. Implementation, however, is a little harder than listening.