Saving Dasaria

[Ashalley]

There, see? She did it again.

Let's talk about productivity.

Passive Aggressive: denoting or pertaining to a personality type or behavior marked by the expression of negative emotions in passive, indirect ways, as through manipulation or noncooperation. (Dictionary.com)

I realize that you won't learn a thing from this, but perhaps when other people read this thread and look back over this conversation they'll realize the fallacy that exists when you, personally, enter a thread with this sort of attitude expecting productivity.

Late Edit: My point here is simple; this is the cancer that's killed Das.

[Kell]

I wasn't being passive aggressive, I meant it. I would much rather see this thread being productive, than focussing solely on flaming me. If anyone has any issues with me; please feel free to contact me in person over PM.

But let's just keep this thread free of personal flaming. It's nasty, vicious, toxic, and though I hear you and I understand the frustrations, it's best left to private PMs, don't you think? Or start a new thread.

I'm seriously not as manipulative, evil, cruel and nasty as you think I am, haha. I know that's what certain people think, and those people will find these words manipulative too, but you know what.. I cannot battle that.. And I won't try either. There's no point picketing with people when they have their minds made up.

[Ashalley]

Re-read the above post.

This is not a personal issue between you and I, but a management issue. This serves to highlight what is actually the very center of this conversation.

From a DM's perspective, I can 100% say that from your reputation and the way you've comported yourself here, I wouldn't touch you with a ten-foot pole. As a builder of communities, how could I ask anyone to tolerate this sort of juvenile, attention-grabbing nonsense? I somehow suspect you're watching this like a hawk.

Vicious. Poisonous. Attention-grubbing harpy.

You'll get no more from me; I've said my peace, here.

For the DM team, if more than one of you cares to read this; find a way to deal with this disruptive behavior, not just from this single player, but from any player in the future capable of creating such a black hole for fun. It's vital. Hell, it might even save the server.

R,
-M.

[Kell]

I merely responded to me being flamed. I answered in honesty and with the intent to address things in a mature way. How others respond is out of my hands. Thanks for leaving it at this.

[Arkalezth]

Let's see... My intention with this thread is not finding out who has a problem with who or to blame anyone. If someone wants to discuss those kinds of things, feel free to do so, but I'll ask you to do it somewhere else than on this thread.

This thread is directed to those players who would like to keep the server alive and leave all the crap behind. And yes, it goes without saying, but the first step is logging on and playing. There are still things to do IG, but not without players. For those who have quit for good and have no interest anymore, well, I respect your decision and I'm sorry to see some of you go, but I'd like to believe there are still players out there (and I don't care if you're from America, Europe, Africa or Mars) who don't want the server to die.

[Iduna]

I've been sitting here, staring at this blank response box, trying to figure out how to even start with what I have to say. In the end, I believe it is most important to be as positive as possible, as negativity snowballs and drags good people down. I love Das. I've been here for 10 months now and I have been a part of some of the most amazing RP that I have ever seen in NWN2. The people here are good people who love to have fun. I don't know when things started to go sour, but something terrible is happening here. While I don't know the full story, I can share some wisdom that I have learned along the way from playing and DMing on a toxic server.

1. Addressing the attacks upon the staff - DMs are not omnicient. If there are problems between players, the staff cannot possibly know about them, unless the problems are brought to their attention. If the staff sees arguments, it is not their responsibility to step in, unless they see it is a disruption to gameplay. From what I have seen, this happens most of the time. Sometimes issues slip through the cracks because DMs are human and are not perfect beings. Also, they have their own lives and sometimes those lives are stressful enough that adding stress from a game to the mix is simply too much to handle.

2. Issues between players - Arguments and disagreements are going to happen. Everyone has their own personality that may not mix with others. Its a basic fact and it happens. Accept it and move on. With that said, there are times that these conflicts grow out of control, and that is when they need to be addressed. Currently, I am seeing simple issues being blown out of proportion, rumors are being spread, vitriol is being spewed, and it is getting way out of control. When this happens, it is time to have the issues mediated and dealt with. You don't have to like everyone, but coming to an acceptable solution, for all parties involved, goes a long way in creating a stable and positive environment.

3. Judging RP - This is a tough topic, but also an easy one to address. Not everyone's play styles are compatible. If you don't like the way someone plays, don't play with him/her. End of story. Don't go to your friends and bash this person for your dislike of his/her play style. Don't spread that negativity. This is easy to discuss, but much harder to actually do. I know I've been guilty of this as well and I'm very sorry for my part in it. It is so easy to fall into that trap of judging other people's RP, so it has to be a conscious effort to rise above it.

4. Flaming - This thread is in danger of spiraling out of control because there is some pretty intense flaming going on here. That is not a productive way of dealing with a personal problem with another player. If you have problems with a player, either take it up with the player privately, or take it to a DM. Using this public venue to call names and spout poison is not the place to do it. I am in shock by what I've seen here. This is not the Dasaria I fell in love with ten months ago. It is time that we all grow up and work out these issues like mature adults and not resort to name calling and personal attacks.

Let's go back to the issue at hand. Ark started this thread to help Das pull itself out of this hole we have found ourselves in. I challenge everyone to focus solely on this and find constructive ways to breathe new life into this amazing server.

With Love,
Iduna

[StaffSgtSkunk]

There are many reasons why i haven't been as active as i could have within the server itself. One of those reasons being is that my real life is now at the stage where i am needing to sort out my life, getting a job and living on how i love to live my life as. I admit and this might go to some others if they feel the same way but sometimes you just don't want to log in, not for any reason at all just simply because you need a brake or something from it.

In the past there has been player conflict between one an other (not going to say any names). It wasn't untill after i spoke to one of them and told them why i hate people arguing and why it upsets me it stopped. What people need to see is that it doesn't just harm the two that are fighting, it conflicts onto others which causes them to think about staying with the server.

I while ago i said that i will never leave the server and that i will always stay no matter how bad things got. To this day i still stand by with what i said, sure people may not enjoy role playing with me and i know that but at least im keeping whatever out of character stuff that happens out of in game. If people can just understand that there are others that they may not like for whatever reason and keep it out of character with the posiblitly of getting it solved face to face. The server will be a more an enjoyable place to be.

In my personal view on whats been going on all that we need to do is just realise that we are all players and if someone didn't like what someone else did in game, talk to them out of character and not cause problems for everyone else. The past few months i have found that the whole Dasaria server is like a second family to me but it just keeps geting broken due to people fighting.

People have told me in the past something that took me a while to do. It's just a game.

[relvalis]

I wrote a huge long post about the why the server died, but the forums ate it so...

1) Wired being MIA to stomp on stupid and put in pixel crack to keep masses happy.
2) Players being snarky manipulative back stabbers, focusing more on ooc power grabbing and slander than on rp.
((ps point 2 happens in every game... ban the festering *&^% blisters before they can cause this level of trouble))

[Crimson]

I agree 200% with Relvalis here.

Sadly, stuff like this has consequences for me too...
I won't make a farewell-thread, because I don't want to...

Das meant and still means a lot to me. But this is the time where I say stop.
Goodbye, everyone, and thank you so much for the many good times.

[Atharin]

Hi guise!

I won't go over why I slowly stopped playing or why so many other players quit Das - the reasons are varied and many, all of which led to the slow and steady decline of the server over the years.

But I want to touch on this.

1) Wired being MIA to stomp on stupid and put in pixel crack to keep masses happy.

This is perhaps the #1 reason why the server died. For too long the burden of server maintenance and upkeep -- technical, story, and community-wise -- was on the shoulders of one person, whether because he took it upon himself or because nobody wanted to offer substantial help (I'm leaning towards the latter, from what I know).

And that's an impossible situation. It was inevitable.

Short answer to OP: Yes. The server has always been dead when Wired wasn't around to kick it awake; and I applaud him for sticking with it for so long. I do kind of wish he'd let go, for his sanity.

[Greenboy3]

Alright so I'm exhausted from work but I'll try to keep this as easy to read as possible.

Is Das dead? Yes. From what I see and have experienced in the past, the server is rotting in the sun. Only a small handful of players play these days, and it's a small group of friends just playing with each other in the dark corners of the server.

What could be fixed to help improve life of the server?

A) More active DMs. The only DM that has actively tried doing things with me or actually reached a hand out to me as a new player was DM_Sabre. From my view and experience (So don't take it too harsh or anything) but if you don't know the DM personally, or are not part of a group of players, you'll never get a moment with that DM since they seem to cater to people they know or like. Again, my personal experience, no harm intended.

B) Having this group clique battle stop. It's beyond clear we have two (Or more) clique's that people play with or stick around. If you're not involved in one of them, you're that loser loner in the middle (It's great NOT). At first I felt greatly involved, but then conflicting RP began to happen, which spiraled into OOC BS and well, that killed it. After that, RP has been an impossibility to find unless I'm on my knees begging and tugging on sleeves to get it. So I've gotten to the point I just chill on IRC and if someone asks me to jump on, I will.
Also as a side note, people have tried inviting me to RP but it was incompatible with my toon which had me end up leaving cause well, I'm not going to break my characters RP or anything to bend over backwards just to play with people. Sorry.

C) The server itself is built for group play. But, the server is so small and as previously stated people are so involved in their little circles of people that getting people to play with as an outsider is very difficult. So logging in to do quests alone or anything is damn hard and you end up getting more frustrated then anything. Which again, has led me to just coming on if someone I know is on that I can actually RP/play with. This itself can't be fixed easily, it'd take a lot of work to make things a bit easier and more solo oriented.

That's all I can really say for now before my brain melts from this day. So in short, quit fighting one another (As Iduna said, not everyone is going to get along, but we should be able to accept that and at least be able to PLAY with one another). Get out of your houses and corners to play with others (No offense here either, if that's what you like to do, can't stop you. But everyone hiding in rooms with their buddies certainly isn't helping the state of the server). And DMs, I know your job is damn hard, several years of experience myself to understand those feels. But reach out to new players, try to have them involved instead of focusing on the same group of players over and over again making people like me feeling like left out pieces of scum not worthy of your attention.

Again none of this is meant to flame, be offensive or taking stabs even if it comes off this way. Long day at work, exhausted, my words may not be as beautifully put as I wish them to be.

[Arkalezth]

What could be fixed to help improve life of the server?

I think you wrote a good post, but what's needed, first and foremost, is:

1) People actually WANTING to play and to keep the server alive.

2) Players online. Not theorycrafting about what can be done, but actually playing the damn game. (Not directed to GB or anyone else in particular).

Again, I'm not looking for culprits or reasons for the current estate of the server. That's not going to help. If you have no interest in keeping playing or improving things, no offence, but this thread is not intended for you. If you do, it's about time we start doing something about it. I've tried other PWs and there's none I like half of what I like Dasaria. I'm not going to passively watch my favourite server die just because this guy doesn't like that guy.

[Domina]

In my opinion...what will help is more Advertising.

Advertising the server and Das will help bring in a bit of new people. So for those current unidentified players scaring off the new ones or the ooc dramatics that I seem to be hearing about...we'll have numbers to break all that down and know who the banned players have to be. Since there is no quere anymore in Gamespy or whatever it was called to help find Dasaria, which is how I found it, a person who is new to all this might have difficulty discovering the enriched worlds. I certainly wouldn't have known how to find them.

Without new people we:
Cant diversify/break up cliques
Cant have new input of stories and suggested content
Have less volunteering/new DMs
Wont have the numbers to support lower level/group play
Have more struggle between passive groups
Difficulty to promote more healthy IC rivalry
Cant encourage new players with the enriched story of Dasaria

So to be part of the possible rebuilding of Das I would like to reach out to the staff for the former promotion tools we used before such as the Facebook and Twitter accounts so that I may use my own minor art ability to maybe advance the numbers of the server.

[Jain Zar]

Let's see if what I add makes sense, or even contributes. Though for some 'self-pessimistic' reason I'm not convinced it will. I also waited a few days to response in order not to make a mistake I made earlier, unleashing while blurred by emotions over something that only should be a game... cause it really should but when you get hurt, oh well. I think I would have said things here that probably would have earned me supporters as well as opponents. I rather like to step back out of the storm and reapproach with a more peaceful mind. At least, my intention for serenity is genuine.


First of all, if I were a new player now and read a post like this, it would be enough for me to turn and run back head over heels to where I came from. The title of this post is also a lil unfortunate, despite Ark's good intentions. Not sure how I would have called it and maybe you can change it into something else. At least that's what I'd do now.
It's also normal with such a title, input, history and things alive... you get this effect first. This thread was (unfortunately?) a way for people to channel their thoughts and vent them. Which happened, and something I predicted the moment I saw Ark open this one. I also figured I nor anyone else would be able to do something about it. This just had to happen, and it did... period.


I'm an rp'er who is around for quite a while now and if I may say rather consistently present both ig and on the forums, until a few weeks ago due things/events/stuff I rather not wish to perorate on. But I guess that shouldn't make my voice weigh less, even if I had played Dasaria only for a few weeks during my entire life.


For starters, it's true we need active (campaign) DMs in order to carry on with the Dasaria theme, and not just one, or even two. But IMHO only for that and nothing else concerning roleplay on the server. To some this is a major issue, to others (newbies, 'not-well-speaking-english' players) who are unaware of the Dasarian lore... well... they'll probably don't give a hood. Yes... it brings people together up to a certain level, but so do/should other (player) initiatives.

I refer here to a few examples I have seen on the server in which people looked for players in order to fulfill a certain role in their rp, to help them evolve their characters and stories. A few times I had the chance to be part of it, and quite a few times I tried to generate such myself as well. The only problem is that people who are not invited or unable to participate due pesky time zones may end up feeling left out or hurt.
I personally believe an initiative like the Circle, and a few others as well, had a lot of potential. Cause yes, I dreamed of a thieves and assassins guild (go ahead and sue me ), but more even about an initiative in which players of every time zone could participate and set up rp with each other and with others. By others I mean here 'outsiders', yet players willing to offer characters in order to play a part in the stories of this guild. Heck, I even dreamed of a few more permanent things like a race between guilds, a hate/love thing with the Fleet, investigators versus infiltrators, and much much more. I really had the best of intentions with it and I was willing after RL would have gotten calmer to make it rolling again and putting work and energy in it. Due various reasons it won't and I won't, but again this is not the place for me to explain cause people without doubt would feel addressed or even hurt if I did publicly. Yes, I confess... I wondered if I should.


Next thing.
When a new player logs, I think it would be nice if they feel welcomed... but they should not immediately find themselves dragged into a faction, especially not to increase a certain clique's size. New players shouldn't be the stake of our own stories and other desires. We should listen to them and depending on what they prefer, they should be guided by either dms or other players. I think about quests, events, forums, dms, and eventually learn them about the possible factions. If we can show them they can contribute, set up certain things themselves, and be in the spotlight themselves at times... well... to me it wouldn't sound as a bad place to stay. And we can all do as much, but it would be contributing I think. You say you already did? Thumbs up from me.
Small detail : In a recent past I logged a few times as a new player and not much of all above happened to me.


Will I be back? I guess I'm the only one who can answer that question. After all, I go where I find the above.
But that..., is just a personal preference.

[Arkalezth]

Regarding this thread and its title: Yes, I'm aware that it may scare new players. But there's something even more scary: an empty server. In the end, thread or no thread, new players are not going to stay here for long if they find themselves playing alone all the time. They may play for a few days or weeks, but then they'll get tired of it and move elsewhere.

I don't know if something will be achieved here or if it'll all backfire, the few active players will leave as well and everything will go to hell, but I think the issue had to be raised.

Regarding being invited to things: I don't think that (i.e. needing an invitation in order to join other players) should be the way to go 99% of the time. It only creates isolation, which derives into... this. As far as I'm concerned, everyone can feel free to approach me IG at any time.

Also, I want to remind everyone of the existence of The Adventurers' Guild, where we try to run events without the need for a DM and where everyone's welcome. Frankly, I'm surprised of how few people have shown an interest in those over the months. Most of the involved players are Europeans, so we naturally tend to play on hours that are good for us, but exceptions can be made and different hours can be arranged to include other players.