Some Unsolicited Advice to the Dasarian Dungeon Masters...

OOC discussions directly related to Dasaria.
Artorius
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Post by Artorius »

Advice noted and no feelings hurt here.

I've learned much since being added to the staff. Not only learning my strengths and weaknesses, but also that DMing online is much different from DM'ing PnP. First, in PnP you have a limited amout of players at the table, where as being online you have quite a few players. And interacting with the player, especially with OOC issues, it is much easier when you are face to face. With online DMing, you have more than just one DM. Which means we often have to bounce off one another and keep each other informed. That can prove difficult if one of us is offline for some unexpected reason. There are other differences, but those are the ones that come to mind.

Now I'm not making excuses. I'm just showing the difference between the two and some of the difficulties with DMing online.

And I can't really agree with letting the players know what's going on behind the scenes. Just for the reason that it would ruin it for the players. As a player I would prefer to have the unknown pop it's snarling and drooling maw up before me. That's apart of the excitement.

Small events are not only fun, they're easier to manage and you have more one on one with each player that is taking part. But sometimes you got to have that Epic "thang".

As for opening up the forums, especially the old DM forums. Nope. Way too much info in there. Denied. Move along.



:P
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Re: Some Unsolicited Advice to the Dasarian Dungeon Masters.

Post by Kell »

Peregrinus wrote:Going in another direction, be approachable. I know some people here like the idea of announymous DMs, but to me this is a very bad thing because it builds a wall between the players and the DMs.
And this wall should be there, imho. I have had many issues with people being too familiar with me and I have stood in between many battles between players. I was dragged into things (of course I allowed myself to be dragged into it and sure I did make some mistakes along the way, but how would you handle it?) and I was being bitched at, like I bitched back in return.

Anonymosity is a must to DM's who really don't feel like players feeling the need to bitch, rant, whine, cheer on a personal level.

DM's seeming unapproachable can be solved in different ways too. The moment people know your name, they'll start acting as if they are your biggest friend the moment they need you to do something for them.
Last edited by Kell on Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Mon-da-oth »

I always enjoyed the sudden appearance of the DM's during an otherwise mudane time. It really livens it up and emphasis's the fact that they do watch on occasion.

I remember the time after RP'ing with Myles and having him spend twenty minutes in RL relating a tale to Sylvanana Seersong when Wyvern suddenly dumped an XP reward on us.

And the time when Myles was on but no one else was and after teasing the Varanites a little I returned to the enclave and suddenly one of the Fairies starts talking to Myles. I think it was Art that did that. But it was these little things that left an impression on me.

There was only ever one DM that I found to be non responsive and he didn't stay as a DM very long. I don't even remember his name but Jeh and the rest of the group have been very supportive.
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Post by Vahene »

Perhaps this leads me to another thing, be more open about what goes on behind the DM screen. I'd go so far as to say on the old forums, once Das2 is launched, open up all the old faction forums and the DM forums to allow people to see "behind the screen" as it were.
Quite frankly, I don't think I want to know how the DM's felt about a few of my characters. *coughs* I say leave the DM Forums closed, though tis not a bad thought in regards to the other faction forums. Personally, I'm not a moderator of any though, so not my choice. When I think about the few factions I'm in being released, eh, it makes me chuckle thinking about the reactions, especially in regards to one of them in particular.

Regarding the wall of separation between players and DM's--well, DM's are players too. . . and bluntly, that wall should stay up. If a DM wants to tell me who they were, or I find out by accident, I'll keep my mouth shut. That's OOC information and my character doesn't know what DM's are much less why they exist. Kristin, though, doesn't really give an owl's behind either way who belongs to who.

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Post by Rob »

Peregrinus, why do you want to know what's going on behind the scenes? I would think you'd want to be surprised by what the DMs have in store for us.
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Post by Stormknife »

DM Forums: Keep 'em locked. I mean, if y'all want to share a few select threads from Das1, I sure as hell wouldn't object. But I get the feeling there's more than a few threads there that would cause all kinds of trouble if people read them.

As far as DM anonymity/approachability...I was kind of surprised at how (relatively) open Wyvern was about being a DM when he was logged in as one of his PCs. I think Dasaria needs at least one active DM like that, just because it's a lot easier to go to someone and tell them you found a potential exploit, or ask which DM to contact about your crazy and (hopefully) world-saving plan, or things of that sort.

That said, I do think it might be a good idea for there to be a rule like at a LARP I used to play: "No DM calls while you are PCing.". Like it's okay to say "Guys, stay in character" or "Knock off the swearing", but not to invoke the fact you're a DM (and yeah, there's obviously some common sense used with that one).
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Post by Jehannum »

I also try to stay out of player relations (not with 100% success!), as I want the playerbase to have someone to come to if there is a problem with the staff or another player without having the strings of politics or relationships involved.

I very much have an official "voice" when I am dealing with issues like that that is rooted in the server rules, the campaign integrity, and fairness.

The different personality types on the DM staff are a key factor when we choose a DM. It takes all kinds.

I am sorry to say to those who would think otherwise, but I am not really out to make players feel comfortable. I am here to provide a good entertainment medium, express myself creatively, have a little fun here and there, and finally and to provide an equal enforcement of the server rules. Furthermore, I have seen that sense of comfort abused time and time again by the player base.

That is not to say that I have not made some wonderful friends along the way. Wyv...I was the best man at his wedding, j4, CL, all are people I call friends in RL now from Dasaria. There are quite a few players who I have built friendships with that came in time through mutual respect over time.

A lot of how people treat others is based on how you treat them. You know...the ole' golden rule. Like if someone attacks DM's who serve on the server on various web mediums, are insulting, or condescending in tone then it is pretty safe to say that such a one probably will not get a warm response, and furthermore all any DM owes the player is an offical call or response, skilled Dm'ing and fair treatment. If you get more than that, then that is good fortune. It is not in the Dasaria Dm job description to be warm, consoling, or to work out personal issues from a DM perspective.
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Post by muletang »

I love the mysterious DM side of things, I still remember the first time one of em tagged me, I didn't know what was going on but I loved it. And that rang true for the rest of my time on the server pretty much, I still don't know who Artorious, CL, Jeh, Deph, Agony, J4, Falcon or LoFang played as PC. Wyv was obvious cos of the double hip job between him and Rump (:wink:).
I'd hate to know what was being planned, its half the fun of the character evolution, adapt and change, grow or die, I don't want any warnings or insights that might make me influence the way that the character will behave when the poo hits the fan.
Last edited by muletang on Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jonny »

CL <- You have always brought a strong presence to this server. I have enjoyed your DM run events and your characters. It would be ashame if you were not a part of Das 2.

DM's <- I have always found the DM's approachable. I think you guys have done a great job and look forward to Das 2. Except the time i asked for the +20 scythe. :wink:
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Post by broncoblitz »

We should just outsource our Dm's to India, that way we don't lose fun players to the other side of the game :wink:
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Post by Stormknife »

broncoblitz wrote:We should just outsource our Dm's to India, that way we don't lose fun players to the other side of the game :wink:
Ooooh! Can we set them up with a shocky monkey?!
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Post by Tslisher »

A bit late chiming in, but as anyone who had DM'ed in this medium knows, A DM is doing an huge amount of stuff during an event. I don't think its physically possible to type fast enough or click through menu's quick enough to respond to everything that the players are doing.

In a 6 month long campaign that I ran, we had two DM's to about 6 or 7 players and still couldn't keep up. Bravo to all the creative work that this DM team does. Remember as players, be patient and overall be greatful when you do receive DM attention. I've had some wonderful interaction with the DM's on this world, and think they do a great job. But please, for their sanity, keep the in-game DM requests to a minimum.

And absolutely the DM forums should not be opened up. The wall between player & DM needs to be maintained for fairness and to maintain immersion in the game. Its GOOD if you don't know everything that's going on.

:wink:
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Post by Peregrinus »

Rob wrote:Peregrinus, why do you want to know what's going on behind the scenes? I would think you'd want to be surprised by what the DMs have in store for us.
*sighs*

Once again, certain people show they only can read every other word. I suggested opening the old DM forums, not the present ones, and only after Dasaria 2 had begun. In other words, I was advocating removing the surprises in Dasaria 2, but rather, getting the DM perspective on Dasaria 1.

Why would I want to see that?

Frankly, because I'm curious. Sort of the same reason you might watch a "making of" documentery for a favorite movie, or watch said movie with the commentaries on, to see the game from another perspective. Same reason its interesting to see the player faction forums, to see another perspective on the game, what people were doing. (I find it rather funny that all the good alligned factions, so far, are willing to open up their forums and the evil ones are not. ;p)

*sighs*

I think people are misunderstanding me, or taking what I'm saying to an extreme. Allow me to respost part of my original section on that:
Peregrinus wrote:Now, this is not to say to pubically declare your PCs or IM names, being able to stay private is an important thing and being able to unwind by playing instead of DMing is also critical to you, so try and find a middle ground between privacy and approachability. A challenge, I know, and I promise to not abuse that fact I have your MSN Wyv.
As to my second comment of:
Peregrinus wrote:Perhaps this leads me to another thing, be more open about what goes on behind the DM screen.
Seems I should expand on what this is about. I'm not saying I think total openness and no secrets from the DMs. There is less fun with that if you know exactly what is going on all the time. What I'm refering to is when there's a problem. Take the Four Horsemen quest for instance, until now I hadn't (and probably a few others) known that there had been discresions by players as well. This led to a more negative view of the event. These problems, as they seem to be OOC more than anything else, could have been discussed publically then and worked around then rather than keeping it secret from the players who just wanted to get on with the story. Also, it is sometimes nice to know the motivation for a DM decision if it ties to an OOC issue. For instance, if a DM asks what days people would like for an event, they should also, like anyone else involved, mention that X day or Y day is bad for them. It streamlines things and keeps conflict between the DMs and Players down.

Finally, something I should have mentioned before. Let the PCs fail on their own merits, just as you let them succede, even if this means, for instance, we end up loosing Daris to the Varanites, or the Four Horsemen stay about. This doesn't mean that you should let PCs fail if its a series of bad luck ("that Claw Warlord just crit how many times in a row?!") or a DM mistake ("well, I guess setting up an ambush on the zone in point is a little unfair" or "oops I clicked the Hellball button"), but if the players back themselves into a corner, don't allow a deus ex machina or a give a quick out to them, let them earn it.
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Post by Wyvern »

The old DM forums wont be opened for several reasons. One, because they still contain material pertinent to the upcoming camapaign, and two, they also contain material that may be directly, or indirectly related to existing players that would affect attitudes going into the new campaign. To state it simply, some of it just is not fit for public consumption, and most of it is irrelevant now but may in all likelyhoods open up old cans of worms that are best left sealed.

So, no, they will remain closed.
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Post by Artorius »

Edited: Yeah, what Wyvern said.

You beat me to it. :P
Peregrinus wrote:Now, this is not to say to pubically declare your PCs or IM names, being able to stay private is an important thing and being able to unwind by playing instead of DMing is also critical to you, so try and find a middle ground between privacy and approachability. A challenge, I know, and I promise to not abuse that fact I have your MSN Wyv.
You know I'm not really sure what you excatly want here, Peregrinus. I think most of us (DMs) have our emails or some kind of IM posted on our profiles. If people see me on my IM or just want to send me an email or PM, I'm all for that.
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