Dasaria II - A NWN2 Roleplay and Story-driven Persistent World

BeyondRedemption wrote:
They shouldn't reach 20 because taking a little longer to reach that level is not payment enough for the power that they will have over others. Hell, there are plenty of ECL races now with levels that are on par with the rest of the powergamers on the server. Extra grind should not grant you superpowers.

Some of the added abilities of the ECL classes are a bit overpowered (see spell resistance for sure and the ac bonus of the deep gnome is a bit crazy too).

For one, if people want to play the class for the simple novelty factor, then the level cap shouldn't be a problem.

As the OP brings up, from a mechanics perspective, the experience cap is a whacking of the nerf bat that is perhaps too extreme for the benefits received. You lose BAB, spells per day, feats, skill points, spellcaster levels, etc.

A meeting in the middle might be to rebalance of the races and take away their ECL. Or simply keep the ECL (perhaps modify it), allow max level 20, but strip the races of some of the more imbalancing abilities. Or at least make them a bit more tame. To save the DM's time in this, perhaps they could assign a small committee to help with this project. The committee could submit the project for approval when they feel like they have met a conclusion. Then their results would be subject to DM and/or player base revision and approval. This would likely save the DM's a bit of time in this endeavor.

And I'll just say one more thing as to keep from turning this into a novel: the final problem really lies in where do these races come from? If they are indeed rarities, perhaps they should be restricted entirely (or with DM approval) as to keep the make-up of the community consistent with the campaign setting.

Thanks for reading this monstrosity

P.S. I think gold and experience being used to purchase homes and such after level 20 or along the way would be really cool.

UltimaBoB wrote:Planning a server based on everyone being an RP angel and even the angels ALWAYS being angels and never succumbing to their powergaming sides is IMO doomed to failure.

NWN2 is a CRPG. Dismissing the Hack and Slash elements, fighting spaws, or the importantce of balancing won't make those problems go away. Quite the opposite.

IMO gear is a nice way to balance the ECL races at 20. Level 20s need to still have an investment in gaining xp and gp - but one that doesn't yield increasing power to the same extent it did when they leveled.

These are *specific* issues that I welcome a concrete discussion on. Getting on the RP soapbox and proudly baring your "I played a level 20 half-orc pure rogue with bad Dex because it was FUN" RP hairshirt for all to see doesn;t really address these issues. Not everyone is you. You can't plan a server for that. But if you intend to balance out ECL via top end gear availability then you have to decide right away, even if there are no 20s or top end gear, in order to influence race selection among level 1s.

With all respect Sir, this is YOUR opinion. Dasaria has always been an RP server that also tried to give the powergamers some meat to chew on. We had a server item wipe in the first campaign because of some readily availible "Uber" items that almost every character has three in their inventory to hand out to friends and alts and that resulted in Dasaria becoming a low magic world.

I am one of those who like to wear the RP hairshirt because all know I am a dedicated RPer that plays to tell a story, not to create the best character with the best gear. That being said, I do like my fancy toys as well, but they are so much meaningful when it is EARNED through RP as a DM award.

If you will give the staff a chance to do their jobs I am sure you will find many things geared for both the power crunchers and grinders and the dedicated RPers and most members of the staff are BOTH. But at this particular moment they have more pressing issues to address such as server stability, content to keep all you power gamers busy and hopefully aquiring a working DM client that doesn't crash the server.

I am sure that custom items for the game and fancy toys are on the list as well, but it takes time. We have a damn good staff here that has learned from the mistakes of the past and will provide a rich environment for all if given the time to do so. However if you are expecting "uber" or "ledgendary" items, I think it is safe to say as a vetran, be prepared to RP your heart out for them.

To restate something I said elsewhere... you are missing a point of the existence of this world:

It is not about rushing madly to level cap, then looking around for additional content via improved gear (since the character itself, number-wise, cannot be improved).

It is about -getting- there. If you feel there is not enough content to keep level 20 preoccupied, why not spend less time being bothered by level advancing?

Granted, it's fun to be the kickass character nobody can mess with, but if you cannot create entertainment for yourself through your character, adding it through hard-to-acquire gear will simply postpone the onset of boredom, meanwhile causing rather strenuous balancing issues for the content developers...

It's like going out backpacking, rushing to the top of the hill, then looking for a mountain to climb because you are already here, meanwhile ignoring the scenery. Sooner or later, it stops being interesting.

Whereas... ah. Nature.

*Daydream*

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

It's the journey, not the destination, that holds the adventure.

In the immortal words of the Greatful Dead:

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe,
But at least I'm enjoying the ride."

Ignoring the flawed premise (that Das2 is doomed if ECL races can't make it to 20 and if there's not still a need to grind once you reach 20...which I think is total bunk)

Lemme yell ya. I'm an RPer, sure, but I'm also a power gamer who loves his loot. Even at level 20, I never lacked for things to do in Das1 as long as my friends were online and I could spend time with them and RP.

Here's the problem with gear balancing ECL races, though...you have to bring everyone up to the level of a deep gnome.

+4 AC (deep gnome).
SR 31 (deep gnome, drow).
Blindness/deafness 1/day as a level 20 sorcerer (not the greatest, but still damn powerful if properly employed).

You also need to:

1: Make it so that the equipment can't be transferred to other characters. Period.

2: Make it so that the lower ECL races can still get the benefit of the equipment without actually getting the full benefit (tiefling, aasimar aren't quite on the power level of a drow or a deep gnome).

3: Make it so that you aren't required to get that uber equipment upon reaching level 20 just so that you can compete with the people who do.

Here's the problem with #3 especially...the gear WILL become a requirement. Once you reach a certain point in the server's life, every level 20 (or at least a sizeable majority of them) will have this gear. And now everyone is a level 20 whatever with SR 31, AC 4 higher than it should be, and the same spell-like abilities per day.

Honestly, you know the best part about reaching level 20? That the grind is over and you aren't feeling bad about not levelling anymore. That you're at the top of the food chain and that you can wade into the middle of just about any situation and have a decent chance of coming out alive. And that when something comes at you that's very difficult to kill, you really do feel like "Oh god. Guys, we might be screwed here"

I made it to level 20 almost 3 times on Das1 (my cleric stopped at 19...I just never had the drive to get that last level despite some really uber loot in his inventory), and I never got bored of those characters. If you really, REALLY like playing the character for reasons other than the grind, being level 20 is not a Bad Thing, even without the Das2 equivalent of WoW's "End Game".

I just don't get it. This entire thread.

Sounds like a resounding 'no' to me. People should be role playing, not leveling to twenty to get their omghawtleetequipz. This suggestion serves only the powergamers of the server.

I'm going out on a limb. To me the most fun will be RPing as a level 20. Because that's all I'm going to have to do. Not rushing from quest to quest so I can keep up (and I'm failing badly) with people who can get to level 11 in about 3 days.

I will enjoy the ride to the top but I will enjoy being ontop more, when I can just log on, roleplay for a few hours and then log off. Or when I can log on (once the DMs client is online) and fight Coloth whos come to Dasaria in the shape of unspeakable evils, and get my arse wooped by a god. I'm looking forward to it.

Grayle wrote:I just don't get it. This entire thread.

Thats ok, neither do I. I don't even get what it is you don't get.

My ignorance is now complete. *traces a circle*

"A problem well stated is a problem half solved."
- Charles F. Kettering

Grayle wrote:I just don't get it. This entire thread.

Aww come on Grayle its the classic struggle between good (roleplaying for its own sake) and evil (roleplaying for ones own sake)

*approaches J4 and Matt* Is there room for one more in that confusion circle?

*joins them* I brought beer.

Will wrote:*joins them* I brought beer.

"Harken, for I bring clarity in underst-"

Head explodes in a welt of gore and bone as a passing-by player +5 laughs maniacally,

"PWND, N00B!"

I'm fairly certain it's a post talking about how you can make it up to the races that don't have ECL +1 - 3 by giving them better gear.

Doesn't make it any easier to understand.

No I think it was originally intended to give level 20's something to do. Even though it shouldn't be possible to even GET to level 20 right now.