Tharon quest tweaks.

[kikkelipoika]

An optimal party there would be a high AC tank, a rogue, a healer and an arcane caster or a warlock to deal with the insane buffs and dish out damage. We had a party like that back before the removal of the instant death spells, and we would've made it to the end without dying too much if it wasn't for a couple of mistakes and those death spells.

In the end we prevailed, but we died countless of times once our tank left us.

[Wired]

Thanks for your feedback. I do listen and I do appreciate it.

I am also happy to have these sorts of 'problems' and talk about them. Now that we have some high-level content, we're really exploring the margins/limitations of the system. Truth be told, there is just a huge disparity/differentiation in character capabilities above level 14, and its a real challenge to strike a good gameplay balance. Some parties get cleaned up in the first room, others cakewalk through there with a 50AC and immunities to everything (which is one reason why the bad-guys target your buffs). I like to think of it as a fun challenge in dungeon design for me, and for party tactics/composition for the players -- The alternative is nerfs for the uber-characters, which I think is too-slippery-a-slope (at level 20, base-class outperforms anyway).

I watch (and listen) to parties do this quest all the time and do make tweaks accordingly. For instance, having seen a number of parties get taken out in the first room, I may distribute the defenders a little differently. Also I'll be bumping the XP/kill a little bit on the mobs to make them a little more rewarding based on what I saw yesterday. Possibly paring down the frequency of dispells a little (this is what gets most people who have trouble with this quest IMHO, not high AC/AB because theirs isn't that good).

Also I-know-you-know, but apparently some people don't: Dasaria2 is a hardcore server and your AoE spells, including dispells, will take out your party members. Again, not necessarily you-the-reader, but I've recently witnessed a small minority of players repeating dispelling their own parties.

This quest is currently open from levels 14 - 20. And I -do- think it's hard all the way up to 20.

In fairness, I am trying to keep the content as open as is practical. You can also enter the Mage's Tower at level 7, though I'd hardly call that level 7 content. 14 I think is good floor for this, but I do think a strong, balanced party is fairly key. Not every quest will be one-size, but we're adding new stuff all the time and they may emphasize different skills (e.g., "the heist," "black harvest," "taking a troll" etc.).

For this one, I think kikkelipoika's got the right idea about party composition. A rogue with high search and disarm is important. I think the party cleric(s) should probably focus on being, well... more clericky (heals, dispells, party buffs, raises) too. In addition to a tank, I would suggest a "big damage" dealer against the bosses too. For mages, I would take some time to study what they resist/are immune to carefully and triangulate their weakness. Then drop the appropriate nukes.

{potential spoilers here}

How would you kill a cleric run by a player? These guys are no higher than Cleric 11/Fighter 2 with some additional points of AB and adamantine warmaces. The have about 16AB armed, and get 2 APR. The difficulty "tweak" that occurred previously was simply to remove their death magic and add 2 levels of fighter for the AB boost. Your issue with the bosses will be their damage reduction -- again, dispells, big nukes (of the appropriate type), and a big-damage-dealer.

[Stormknife]

...adamantine warmaces...

I realize this is high level content and all. But is there going to continue to be a tendency towards giving adamantine weapons to critters wherever possible? I'd be good to know when it comes time to load up on higher level spells and invocations.

[Wired]

...adamantine warmaces...

I realize this is high level content and all. But is there going to continue to be a tendency towards giving adamantine weapons to critters wherever possible? I'd be good to know when it comes time to load up on higher level spells and invocations.

I think it's appropriate for high-level content for the opponents to be challenging and to be able to hit and do damage to high-level players with their high-level buffs.

That said, I don't think the bugbears are going to suddenly discover a vein of adamantine inside their cave and learn the secret of forging it or anything.

Only some of the opponents in the Cathedral have adamantine BTW, those who you might think appropriate given the nature of who they are supposed to be. I'm also not aware of anywhere south of Thrall's Gate where this material is commonly used in weapons, so no, I don't think there's a trend here.

[kikkelipoika]

ye, but the fact that a dungeon requires a balanced party causes problems too, since there aren't too many people available at all times. I'm just glad to be a warlock.

[The_Four_Horsemen]

{potential spoilers here}

How would you kill a cleric run by a player? These guys are no higher than Cleric 11/Fighter 2 with some additional points of AB and adamantine warmaces. The have about 16AB armed, and get 2 APR. The difficulty "tweak" that occurred previously was simply to remove their death magic and add 2 levels of fighter for the AB boost. Your issue with the bosses will be their damage reduction -- again, dispells, big nukes (of the appropriate type), and a big-damage-dealer.

Something seems odd here then. I stand un-buffed with an AC of 34 and these guys chop me to bits. Even if I go in buffed (AC 42) and it takes several rounds for them to dispel they still nuke me. Perhaps it is a combination of spells dunno? They seem hard to hit too, with a 25AB and 3APR

[urgualamand]

I like the quest. I have not completed it yet, but I'm looking forward to gaining a high level enough to do so. A good challenge. My mage has been forced rethink his spells and role in the questing group. I like that. That means different tactics for different quests. More of that!!

[Wired]

No doubt, spells and magic gear will make it go higher.

Anyway, I weakened them ever-so-slightly and bumped the reward in the latest update, let's see where that goes. It should still be tough.

[Alalium]

I agree with the role of the party members in this quest. It is very, "role" oriented. I am a Lvl. 16 cleric and found that my primary purpose in this area, as opposed to others, was to aid in keeping everyone alive. Which meant, memorizing a variety of buffs, and of course....raise dead or just rez. I think I found a nice little balance of buffs and A.O.E. attacks. Where as in other dungeons, I could provide the usual buffs for a fighter and get involved in the melee with little to no worries as a secondary tank. I have also found that yes, they are hard to hit...unless you have the right spell/s combonation to bring them down a bit and not take your party with them.....

[ErictheRed]

I haven't been online for the last couple of weeks. Can someone point me to where I could find this quest? I might give it a try this weekend, if I have time to play.

[Wired]

The Cathedral of Tharon is a landmark any Cearian would recognize, thus no shame in pointing it out... It's directly across the road from Cear Arena.

Do we need map points?

[Minuvas]

I second Map points on MAJOR locations.
There are Map Points in Caer North, and there are only a few locations there.

The Actual City should point out some of the Landmarks .

[hannahcoldkiller]

I think map points would be good for the newbs. Not everyone wants to wander around and explore and might miss somethings that they might enjoy.

[urgualamand]

Yes.. Map points! Not for those who have been here a while, but for newbs because:

1. They will see that this is actually a PWC with content.
2. It helps them to get a feel of the world and its locations. Which many of us already have as basic knowledge.

But I agree with Minuvas. Only the Major locations like the arena, the inn's, the stores, the temples. But not rams four fingers, the sewers, Stalkinghorse and so on.

I really think this would be good.

[Thracius Trueblade]

Map points are your dasarian equivalent of street signs or asking a local in real life

So yes, only major locations, the average local probably isn't going to know the whereabouts of a shady assassin-type bloke, nor is he going to have a street sign pointing to him.

Believe it or not, it actually took me a while to find the bank when it was first added in A map point would have helped with that.