The Big List Of Spells

[Wyvern]

There are only weapon focus feats for weapons. None for touch or ray.

[Peregrinus]

That is seriously disappointing, and will be a major detriment to all mages who depend on those types of attacks. For the record, PnP treats those as "weapons" for the purpose of those feats, in fact, if you do a mage x/fighter 4 combo you can take Weapon Specialization for both. Sounds like mages will be buffing their dex and taking weapon finesse.

[broncoblitz]

Its not that dissapointing really. If you want a better chance to hit go with the Eldritch Knight Prc.

[Grayle]

Why would anyone want to take levels in a class that would keep them from being able to deal 240-480 damage with a single spell?

Must be all that silly role-playing.

I wonder how high saving throw DCs will get.

Indeed, mages will yet again, be a point of contention.

[Wyvern]

It wouldn't be NWN if they weren't.

[Grayle]

Too true, friend.

What are the resting rules again?

[Wyvern]

Only in inns, once every 24 hours (RL), while resting you must not do anything for 8 hours (RL), and when you wake up, your character will randomly run towards the nearest bush for that "early morning bathroom break."

[Vahene]

Only in inns, once every 24 hours (RL), while resting you must not do anything for 8 hours (RL), and when you wake up, your character will randomly run towards the nearest bush for that "early morning bathroom break."

LOL!

-K

[Grayle]

And there the fighters will be waiting. Oh yes, they'll be waiting.

[lankycheese]

Oh man, touch attacks don't always hit?! Mages are going to be really hurt by this, they might require a second or 2 of thinking before owning the crap out of everyone! Of course this affects sorcerers a lot more then wizards too!

Although I do actually like the idea of only being able to rest in Inns or camp fires. That's how it is in 3.5136 anyway, which IMO is god.

[Peregrinus]

Well, the save DCs are inflated by the fact NWN did not do item stacking properly. In PnP, items that give statistic buffs do not stack unless they have different types, and unless you create special custom item, they all give "enchantment" bonuses, which means they also don't stack with spells like Owl's Wisdom or Fox's Cunning. Further, in PnP, the best items only give a +6 to one stat, anything higher is "epic" and not normally found on items.

If you're going to say the Eldridge Knight is the answer, well, you are technically correct, but then again the base to hit for a pure mage with WF is +11, while the Eldridge Knight's will be +15, not counting stat modifiers.

Then again, the NWN2 folks might have done the same thing as NWN and just made all touch spells hit, removed the critical chance... which I hope they didn't because I like both having the chance to miss and the chance to crit.

And I do hope the resting system is revised, though to be fair to all spellcasting classes, I hope you remember to have sprinkled resting areas throughout the game.

Oh, DMs who have the code. Can you look up Darkness? If they held true to the changes from 3.0 to 3.5 it should have been nerfed as well, which will make powerleveling for mages a bit harder, as it was taken down from full darkness with a 50% miss chance to shadowy illumination with a 20% miss chance.

[broncoblitz]

Im trying to keep up with you Pere but I'm not sure what you want.

That is seriously disappointing, and will be a major detriment to all mages who depend on those types of attacks.

Yet you then later say.

If you're going to say the Eldridge Knight is the answer, well, you are technically correct, but then again the base to hit for a pure mage with WF is +11, while the Eldridge Knight's will be +15, not counting stat modifiers.

All you need for eldritch knight is martial weapon proficiency, and 3rd level spells. By taking 1 feat you effectivley boost your attack by 5 and only lose one spellcasting level. If you are able to take the feat that boosts your caster level, with 2 feats you would be able to have both the higher attack bonus and the same caster level as a pure spellcaster.

There are options around the problem you seem to have with ray spells, just because YOU don't like them does not mean they are not perfectly valid options to your problem. You want one feat that will boost your chance to hit by 5%, i gave you and option with one feat that boosts your chance to hit by 25% and with one additional feat gives you and identical caster level.

[Peregrinus]

Bronc, I'm not disagring with you, but I'd personally be a pure caster class because of the role-play reasons than powergame my way into Eldridge Knight. What I mean by powergame is that in PnP, which I tend to think in, the only way to actually get "all martial weapon proficiency," is to take a level of a class that get it, in other words: fighters, barbarians, rangers or paladin. Meaning you sacrifice two caster levels. Because of the idiotic weapon groups in the NWN series, it makes it to easy to get the prereqs for the class.

What do I mean by role-play reasons? Well, a mage who takes "weapon focus: Ray" has practiced to use ray spells and gotten better with them. A mage who becomes an Eldridge Knight is basically a military mage. In NWN, Falson is more of an Eldridge Knight than a pure sorcerer, since he was extensively trained by the military, and shows this by actually having Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus Katana (yes, I burned two of the sorcerer's few feats on those simply for RP reasons).

Further, the problem I would have with Eldridge Knight has less to do with spells per day and caster level and more to do with Spells Known, I play sorcerers after all. In PnP you're sacrificing 3 9th level spells per day and 1 8th level spell per day, as welll as 2 9th level spells known (out of 3) and 1 8th level spell known (out of 3).

If what you suggested is done, then I'm only sacrificing 1 9th known and 2 9th/day for a 50% higher BAB and a larger hit dice. Hrm... looking at it, every mage, or at least sorcerers, should go into Eldridge Knight just for the benefits... DMs, we may have a problem and the EK might just be overpowered if the prereqs are the same as PnP and they still use weapon grouping like in NWN.

Oh and bronco, I never had a problem with ray spells, I just have problems as a PnP player with how many things are implimented in the NWN games.

[Kell]

If we all would play for and with eachother to keep it fun for and with eachother and be less rigid and uptight about all these little rules, DM's could concentrate on building, creating, quests, all that things.

Who -cares- if people want to powergame, isn't that their good right? You have the choice too, you pick either yes or no, and you live with the consequences.

Yeah, I know a lot's changed, I used to be very much against it well but in the end; what does it matter. Aslong as you're having fun.

Mages being overpowered are no fun, I hear?

Frrt. There will always be One the winner. Don't you have anything else to worry about instead of fretting about the wrongs of a game that's not even out? It'll be so friggin' boring with all restrictions, I buy this game because of possibilities, not because of restrictions, mreh.

[lankycheese]

Restrictions? I was under the impression we were talking about the possibilities that are available with this current spell list. Nothing like a good debate to fling back and forth about the class/es that everyone loves to hate.

As Wyv said, looks like less "I Win" spells and a hell of a lot more counters availble this time around. I for one can't wait to start crossing hands in PvP and trying to find even more devastating and subtle spell and move combos.