Are you guys concened about some of the subraces?

Zephis · Post by **Zephis** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:42 pm

Heheh

Well.. you say your unreasonable.. so i can be to nya!

Seriously tho... I'll try and be a bit more laid back.. I'm still getting to know the place... and more to the point the people so forgive me if i overreact

Forlorn · Post by **Forlorn** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:43 pm

I'm sorry if someone already mentioned this but I'm a little lazy right now and I didn't read all 5 page's worth of replies. I'll only address Jehannum's original post concerning how to deal with subraces. To be blunt and brief, I vote we do nothing. The reason is because those powerful races such as tiefling and aasimar have drawbacks as well, similar to the other subraces. Their drawbacks however don't come in the form of ability decreases, but rather they have ECL penalties. If I'm not mistaken, both tieflings and aasimars have ECL's of either 1 or 2, and choosing to play either of these races causes one to level significantly slower than your average race. Therefore, due to this, I'd like to see a little leeway given to those who would want to play aasimars or tieflings. The only good reason I see for limiting them would be if they didn't exist in the Dasaria storyline (ie they are an exiled race or they don't exist whatsoever), in which case it would be appropriate.

tenodera · Post by **tenodera** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:03 pm

I can tell you I'm playing as a Drow warrior and I'm in the habit of losing more xp then gaining thus far. It's gonna be a long long way to level 2 at this rate lol. Just for a little perspective ; )

Tinuvhiell · Post by **Tinuvhiell** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:33 am

Forlorn wrote:I'm sorry if someone already mentioned this but I'm a little lazy right now and I didn't read all 5 page's worth of replies. I'll only address Jehannum's original post concerning how to deal with subraces. To be blunt and brief, I vote we do nothing. The reason is because those powerful races such as tiefling and aasimar have drawbacks as well, similar to the other subraces. Their drawbacks however don't come in the form of ability decreases, but rather they have ECL penalties. If I'm not mistaken, both tieflings and aasimars have ECL's of either 1 or 2, and choosing to play either of these races causes one to level significantly slower than your average race. Therefore, due to this, I'd like to see a little leeway given to those who would want to play aasimars or tieflings. The only good reason I see for limiting them would be if they didn't exist in the Dasaria storyline (ie they are an exiled race or they don't exist whatsoever), in which case it would be appropriate.

That would be ok in a world where humans and non ecl's are always 2 or 3 levels ahead, but eventually, everyone will be 20. That's when the trouble would arise.

Sergei-san · Post by **Sergei-san** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:46 am

I would vote limiting the maximum level by ECL modifier.

VarnithisXIII · Post by **VarnithisXIII** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:48 am

Actually, the way server level caps work is based on an EXP cap instead of a LEVEL cap, so on a level 20 server, Tieflings, Aasimar, and Duergar are restricted to level 19 max, Drow level 18, and Deep Gnomes level 17.

That completely ruins monk power builds and balances it alot more than I orginally thought.

I do agree that races such as Deep Gnome, Duerager, DROW, Aasimar, and to a lesser extent, Tieflings don't belong in the Dasaria II campagin, but from a numbers standpoint, the Server caps do balance it out in the end.

Kensai · Post by **Kensai** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:21 am

I've been playing a Sfvirneblin ranger and a human fighter and I have to agree that the ECl adjustment is VERY discouraging, to me at least. Having to reach 10,000xp for 2nd level was enough to convince me to make the human fighter, lol.

I certainly think that an XP cap would work well to balance out the races in the end-game. Any bonuses the subraces get would be offset well by a level or more loss.

Zephis · Post by **Zephis** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:11 am

I actually have another suggestion..
But i'm not sure people will like it

Introduce Percentage based Xp rather then level based.

So if i have 10000XP i loose X percent.
This means ECL races loose a bit more if they die, reflecting the fact that they have to work that bit harder to level up.
It also means that your high level chars really get hit with a whammy... but with res being available to clerics and such it would mean that only the best and most co-ordiated players make it all the way to 20 in a short amount of time...

Rain · Post by **Rain** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:23 am

Zephis wrote:I actually have another suggestion..
But i'm not sure people will like it

Introduce Percentage based Xp rather then level based.

So if i have 10000XP i loose X percent.
This means ECL races loose a bit more if they die, reflecting the fact that they have to work that bit harder to level up.
It also means that your high level chars really get hit with a whammy... but with res being available to clerics and such it would mean that only the best and most co-ordiated players make it all the way to 20 in a short amount of time...

In real AD&D or D&D I don't mind the hit to my XP when I die. But in a online game I don't like it for a few reasons.

1. Lag, I don't care who you are no one likes to lose a level(or 50% whatever it would get set at) when you get a lag death. I accept I should lose XP but not a ton for something I can't control.

2. bugs/game mechanics, This includes pathing and the like. How many times have you told your char to go to point A and have him run all over to get there? Say you are leading a creature back to a well tought out trap to ambush it but you get stuck on a rock/random thing on the map and it guts you before you can make it back. I know you can hold the mouse button down and guide them a little better but with the horrid camera in this game that lot of times is a bad idea.

I'll just leave those for now I guess.

Kensai · Post by **Kensai** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:29 pm

Zephis wrote:I actually have another suggestion..
But i'm not sure people will like it

Introduce Percentage based Xp rather then level based.

So if i have 10000XP i loose X percent.
This means ECL races loose a bit more if they die, reflecting the fact that they have to work that bit harder to level up.
It also means that your high level chars really get hit with a whammy... but with res being available to clerics and such it would mean that only the best and most co-ordiated players make it all the way to 20 in a short amount of time...

Thats not too bad of an idea, but it doesn't solve the problem of overpowered characters at the end game. Not to mention that alt races already level more slowly, I'd hate to see it be any slower.

EvilPyrate · Post by **EvilPyrate** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:04 pm

With the ECL and an XP cap in place, it doesn't make much difference one way or the other. Those two things right there limit the end game effectiveness of non-standard races.

Adding the extra percentage xp loss for death makes dying have more of a bit the higher level you are, regardless of race. I have no problem with that.

Tinuvhiell · Post by **Tinuvhiell** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:50 pm

Rain, I think those reasons are exactly why our death penalty is light. People have argued for a tougher penalty several times, and most think that death should be something to be feared, but when there are things that can kill you that are out of your control (lag, etc.) I think it's better to keep it light.

Post by **Jay Four** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:53 pm

There is no XP cap currently in place. All races are currently allowed full advancement to 20. Everyone realizes this, right?

Kazak · Post by **Kazak** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:56 pm

Jay Four wrote:There is no XP cap currently in place. All races are currently allowed full advancement to 20. Everyone realizes this, right?

Are there plans to change that? It would totally screw up my monk

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:10 pm

If it was implemented, it would only be for ECL races. So if your race was ECL +1, they would only be able to reach level 19. Non-ECL races would still be able to get to 20th (a Human for example).