Roleplay and You

[Vahene]

I think we need some people breaking away from their weekly meeting groups and getting in game spontaneously.

Again, for a lot of us, I think it still boils down to "this is the only time during the week we can log in". At least, in my case that's what the deal is. I imagine I'm not alone in this.

K

[superpoweredchimp]

Playing a Chaotic character or Evil character doesn't mean you have to kill everything that looks at you funny. Even a Chaotic character isn't that brash. I'm not whining here because of the potential to lose. I just don't think that if the burglar runs out of a grocery store stealing a bottle of syrup, that the police will charge at him, run him over, and start shooting him in the face. Pickpocketing can be a CvC act, but not always an act of PvP. You can damage a character without having to take away HP.

[Cythis]

I think if we had more of a way to deal with PPing to make the penalty of getting caught PPing in town that would make it more umm....possibly less likely to happen. By all means I finally have my dark elf SD up high enough where she can use HIPS, I tried to actually PP people and on a busy day in Cear one can make some good gold by stealing and finding other things like potions.

I even offered some people there gold back if I felt it was higher then what I should have gotten. Let's face it, Gounseen is back on the server lol. I believe he won't be so umm......readily with his fingers.

But I think what might be great is if someone tries to sell to Ealdon some stolen property, how he won't buy it, but I think would be a nice little thing is he sounds the alarm and screams for the guards that there is a thief. At least it might help detour some lowbie rogues that just want to grief and then watch as they reap what they sow.

[Vahene]

I agree.

I'm aware of the server rules on the subject, but I don't personally look at pickpocketing as an 'attack' on my character - not if it's done well, that is. In Dasaria 1, it became sort of an inside joke to ask if someone dropped something. And it led to some phenomenal roleplaying experiences that didn't include any DM's, just players. For example, I had a very good RPing experience with a halfling one day, who stole and wore one of my sorceresses outfits. She was fuming angry - and, of course - I was laughing behind the keyboard so hard I could hardly type.

I think the thing about roleplaying that needs to be emphasized is that you don't need a large group, DM's, or special props to roleplay. You can do it on your own with very little to go on except a lost gemstone, as an example, or a stolen outfit. And a lot of us have repeated that throughout this thread. Of course, with that said, it is understandable that not 'everyone' is as understanding about roleplaying pickpocketing incidents as others might be.

Hence the need to have rules on the server - and while Mon and I, for example, would probably RP out an incident between our characters (and I'm fairly sure we have, both in Das 1 and in Das 2) - others might not be as willing.

My 2 silvers.

K

[Farwalker]

One thing that has always perplexed me is that the athority and law keepers. . .(such as the missing Fleet player faction which i would like to see return). . . .is that the Varanite Empire is an Evil Empire. In fact the patron god is evil (Lochwar). The Lords of the Realm have made the new Governor to be very evil. Naturally every edict if violated ends with the punishment of death. ( don't get caught littering you will be hung).

Also for those that missed it a week or two ago. . .there was a mass execution of "criminals" which had them hanging from the walls of Cear. On top of that they were mutilated and burned so that even the Requiem Order and the Temple of Peralia could not see to thier burials and possible salvation at the hands of Goddess Peralia.

It seems that such factions like the Fleet and even the Argentum Vigilo, (no offence), those that serve the "evil Varanite Empire" opperate as Lawful Good instead of the Lawful Evil ways of the Emipre. More so the Fleet than the Argentum Vigilo. I nor my characters know much about the Prince so he maybe a LG NPC character.

It just seems to me that those loyal to the Empire and those that carry out the will of the Emperor and that uphold the laws of the Empire would be more Lawful Evil than LN or LG. I maybe completly wrong.

for those that play rebel characters, good on you! I think it would be awesome to see a full on rebellion begin!

As for pick pocketing and IC lawlessness which the IC lawlessness is pretty rampent. . .most of my characters avoid Cear. Brother Kenshin Bushido doesn't like to go there because there is no law emforcement or obedience. Also he has zero athority to do anything about it. I know we have ALOT of new players, and welcome all, but many do not seem to catch up on the world lore or get interested in following the in game laws and there is noone there to enforce them. . .( *again wishes for the return of the Fleet faction*)

All in all there is no reprocussions for characters that break the laws therefore lawlessness is encouraged. In a land ruled by tyrants and where every law violation is accompanied by death . . .there are alot of people getting away with murder!

But! I could be completly wrong and have no idea what i am talking about. . . . .

[Vahene]

It seems that such factions like the Fleet and even the Argentum Vigilo, (no offence), those that serve the "evil Varanite Empire" opperate as Lawful Good instead of the Lawful Evil ways of the Emipre. More so the Fleet than the Argentum Vigilo. I nor my characters know much about the Prince so he maybe a LG NPC character.

It just seems to me that those loyal to the Empire and those that carry out the will of the Emperor and that uphold the laws of the Empire would be more Lawful Evil than LN or LG. I maybe completly wrong.

It depends on the faction. I think I can safely say [without anyone chopping my head off for revealing things I shouldn't] that nearly 97.56% of Argentum, for example, is of a Neutral or Good alignment. Different factions have different goals.

As for pick pocketing and IC lawlessness which the IC lawlessness is pretty rampent. . .most of my characters avoid Cear. Brother Kenshin Bushido doesn't like to go there because there is no law emforcement or obedience. Also he has zero athority to do anything about it. I know we have ALOT of new players, and welcome all, but many do not seem to catch up on the world lore or get interested in following the in game laws and there is noone there to enforce them. . .( *again wishes for the return of the Fleet faction*)

All in all there is no reprocussions for characters that break the laws therefore lawlessness is encouraged. In a land ruled by tyrants and where every law violation is accompanied by death . . .there are alot of people getting away with murder!

Yeah, I miss the Fleet too.

K

[Sorc]

Heh... I agree with most posts here, but not s-chimps one.... sorry, mate, but lets not project Good or Neutral patterns, which do come from your OoC RL preferences, into RP. I know plently RL LN, LE, CN, CE, CG, TN people, and characters in different RPG or PnP, who if were PPd, were initiating CvC without hesitation. And many of them (Evil ones, or CNs) - till death (not ones i know RL, but hey medieval fantasy world is much more violent that one we live in, and still such ones exist if surrounding society allows that). LN characters can do that too, since LN is alignment where strict L is most emphasized.
So lets not dictate to people how they should play alignments... If one were stealing from some Mafia boss IRL money and were caught - perhaps that person might being shoot to death...
So, for my taste, if you pickpocket me, and i try to kill you with my , fitting to such behavior, character, and you complain OoC you will be the one who breaking RP feel / rules. So, responsibility is yours - if you PP - be ready for situation where you CvCed - anyways ... even if you being killed - you wont lose a thing (i think it should be corrected in terms stolen items being returned, at least) , so complaints for PP-ing being not CvC ( PvP) action cant be viewed as serious in RP-realistic PW.

[Gixxer Chixxer]

I have no idea what the guy above me said, other than that he disagrees with chimp, but I pretty much agree with chimp, so I guess I completely disagree with the guy above me.

[Farwalker]

please excuse Sorc's language barrier. He is a great player. We have many players who's first language is other than english. and there are those like me who don't talk english no good. My english teacher is rolling over in her grave!

[Gixxer Chixxer]

please excuse Sorc's language barrier. He is a great player. We have many players who's first language is other than english. and there are those like me who don't talk english no good. My english teacher is rolling over in her grave!

As best I can tell, he says he disagrees with chimp, and since chimp's post was:

Playing a Chaotic character or Evil character doesn't mean you have to kill everything that looks at you funny. Even a Chaotic character isn't that brash. I'm not whining here because of the potential to lose. I just don't think that if the burglar runs out of a grocery store stealing a bottle of syrup, that the police will charge at him, run him over, and start shooting him in the face. Pickpocketing can be a CvC act, but not always an act of PvP. You can damage a character without having to take away HP.

Basically saying that you don't have to randomly slaughter people and overreact to everything to play evil or chaotic.

And because sorc disagrees with that, I most certainly disagree with sorc.

[Mensha Khaine]

But I think what might be great is if someone tries to sell to Ealdon some stolen property, how he won't buy it, but I think would be a nice little thing is he sounds the alarm and screams for the guards that there is a thief. At least it might help detour some lowbie rogues that just want to grief and then watch as they reap what they sow.

oh I'm sorry sir did you drop this.. 2 mins later you watch as he tries to sell it, Eladen then calls the guards on him.. rolf!

[Sorc]

I have no idea what the guy above me said, other than that he disagrees with chimp, but I pretty much agree with chimp, so I guess I completely disagree with the guy above me.

I say that Pick Pocketing is PvP or CvC action, and when you do it you are responsible, and, it will be much fair OoC wise if you die (you wont lose xp/money, even) than complain OoC.

If you do complain about being CvC punished for your pickpocketing - you one who break rules, badly.

And other point, that you cant dictate to others and say that they overreact. Because it is projection of your subjective vision, and projection of RL OoC "Good" rules.

Example - If you go steal money from local Mafia bss, you will be probably shut down, isnt it?
So lets be real, and death, as punishment, especially in LE environment, should be real.

I, personally, had situation of being pick-pocketed, and certain character i was playing at that moment didnt attacked offender, but warned the thief with his rapier tip.
But, judging someone's attack as reaction for being pickpocketed - incredibly wrong thing, espesially in world where RP realism should exist n LE environment.
Anyone who do offensive thing against other Character/Player should be responsible for doing so, and ready to meet consequences - If person complain OoC it means he - 1. breaking RP rules and immersion 2. Player i wont interact anymore, since i call such behavior "misinterpreting" and "exploiting" PvP rules, and breaking of Dasaria's RP immersion

As, example, another one, i will remind about LE governments in human history:
Very nice example is Ivan Grozny - 1st Russian Tzar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Grozny
During his rule all rebels, thieves or blasphemers or heretics were tortured, or their head was publicly being cut off.
His military-police units - Oprichniki's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprichniki
(See Talons)
Oprichniki's leader:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malyuta_Skuratov
- Were raping and killing those people in settlements which he was setting as "opposing ones".

I know that playing buggs'n'bunnies is plausible for someones, but if we talking about real, violent, LE atmosphere, there should be no complaints about thief being punished via death .

[superpoweredchimp]

Heh... I agree with most posts here, but not s-chimps one.... sorry, mate, but lets not project Good or Neutral patterns, which do come from your OoC RL preferences, into RP. I know plently RL LN, LE, CN, CE, CG, TN people, and characters in different RPG or PnP, who if were PPd, were initiating CvC without hesitation. And many of them (Evil ones, or CNs) - till death (not ones i know RL, but hey medieval fantasy world is much more violent that one we live in, and still such ones exist if surrounding society allows that). LN characters can do that too, since LN is alignment where strict L is most emphasized.
So lets not dictate to people how they should play alignments... If one were stealing from some Mafia boss IRL money and were caught - perhaps that person might being shoot to death...
So, for my taste, if you pickpocket me, and i try to kill you with my , fitting to such behavior, character, and you complain OoC you will be the one who breaking RP feel / rules. So, responsibility is yours - if you PP - be ready for situation where you CvCed - anyways ... even if you being killed - you wont lose a thing (i think it should be corrected in terms stolen items being returned, at least) , so complaints for PP-ing being not CvC ( PvP) action cant be viewed as serious in RP-realistic PW.

I say that Pick Pocketing is PvP or CvC action, and when you do it you are responsible, and, it will be much fair OoC wise if you die (you wont lose xp/money, even) than complain OoC.

If you do complain about being CvC punished for your pickpocketing - you one who break rules, badly.

And other point, that you cant dictate to others and say that they overreact. Because it is projection of your subjective vision, and projection of RL OoC "Good" rules.

Example - If you go steal money from local Mafia bss, you will be probably shut down, isnt it?
So lets be real, and death, as punishment, especially in LE environment, should be real.

I, personally, had situation of being pick-pocketed, and certain character i was playing at that moment didnt attacked offender, but warned the thief with his rapier tip.
But, judging someone's attack as reaction for being pickpocketed - incredibly wrong thing, espesially in world where RP realism should exist n LE environment.
Anyone who do offensive thing against other Character/Player should be responsible for doing so, and ready to meet consequences - If person complain OoC it means he - 1. breaking RP rules and immersion 2. Player i wont interact anymore, since i call such behavior "misinterpreting" and "exploiting" PvP rules, and breaking of Dasaria's RP immersion

Wait, what? Sorry, pal, but I think you might want to take the time to re-read my posts. You're apparently putting words in my mouth. I present my own viewpoint on something, and it feels like you are trying to insult me and call my RP as not serious. I never stated that I'm imposing my own values into my characters. My main is Chaotic Evil. Yes, most that see her in game wouldn't even realize this. I don't play her as the emo kid that wants to insult or kill everyone that looks at her funny. With a city full of lawful guards, and heroes that support them, that just wouldn't be smart. I went down that path seven years ago. I had a CE character that killed nearly everything in sight, even if it was of a higher level. This quickly landed her on EoS status, and was hardly considered good RP by others. I learned from that experience that CE doesn't mean having to kill everything you can (hell, you can probably play CE without even landing a single blow on anyone).

I am not trying to dictate how you should play your characters. I am merely presenting how I feel about the matter. Just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean they're wrong. I am not complaining about people that PvP after being pickpocket (I don't even have a character that pickpockets). In the end, you can play your character however you see fit, man, so as long as it's done within the rules of the server. Also, I'm not seeing anywhere in the rules where it says that you're breaking the rules for complaining about a PvP. You'll have to quote that for me.

My pickpocket example is quite different than the one you stated. If someone steals syrup form a grocery store, the police aren't going to shoot him to death. If someone snags your wallet out of your pocket, hopefully you'll chase them down, tackle them, and report them to the police, instead of committing the crime of murder. Yes, I realize that characters in Dasaria can have the tendency to be more violent than the people of present-day real life, but that doesn't mean they won't think things through and consider the consequences like we do. And, if you're stealing money from the mafia, I don't think that would be considered pickpocket, but rather an act of robbery that may require DM assistance, unless what you meant was literally stealing a few dollars from a mob boss on the street. If that were the case, the mob boss probably wouldn't pull out a gun and shoot you in front of so many witnesses. He would probably enact revenge secretly, and not always through murder (like putting a dead horse on your bed, that would be cool!).

And I'm not specifically talking about pickpocket situations. Earlier today, I was in a scenario where my character was invisible, and was tapping a fleetsman on the shoulder. The fleetsman swung his shield out towards my character, and he hit her badly in the face. She fell back, and ended up with a bloody nose. Eventually, a friendly hero offered to use healing magic on her. My character took damage and there was a bit of CvC occurred, but PvP was never used, and my character never lost HP.

I apologize if you took my previous posts as personal, but they were not directed towards you specifically. You seem to be in partial agreement with me, judging by the rapier tip example you gave. Again, you have your own style of play, and that's completely fine. You certainly don't have to agree with my ideas, but when you call them wrong simply because you have different ideas, your tone comes off as personal hostility. Let's all be cool here, eh?

[Sorc]

Hey mate its all cool..
I said what i said just because someone disagreed with me that death/PvP is normal pickpocket consequence.
I didnt meant that it should be always PvP, but in Le environment most frequent one - and Gixxer mate disagreed with me in form i didnt like (yes my english is not perfect, but i was reminded in 3rd person), last post was for him....
Your 1st post had meaningthat PP should not bring CvC consequences normally (it stated very clearly by you), while, when agreed that it may not bring CvC/Death consequences, in LE violent environment Death would be normal punishment to thief. Even if he steal apple. Peoples were losing their heads just for wrong appearance, or wrong length of beard.

[superpoweredchimp]

Isn't murder against the law? I can understand that there are such things as corrupt governments that end up murdering people, but we're talking about citizens here that aren't exempt from the laws. Your last post still seem directed at me. And... I certainly don't intend on playing "buggs'n'bunnies" characters.