True Seeing

Kit Sune · Post by **Kit Sune** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:48 pm

Ok do any other rogues out there think that this spell should be modified? I mean I have played on another server on NWN 1 that changed the spell so that it instead of being able to automatically see through stealth it actually confers a +10 to spot and listen. Just want to know what you guys think.

broncoblitz · Post by **broncoblitz** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:57 pm

Why would a spell that improves your sight improve your ability to listen?

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:59 pm

My name is Hax, and I've played rogues since forever.

I say wait until stealth works before we go about tweaking true seeing. It'd suck to waste some DM's time scripting something that won't work after a patch or two anyway.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:29 am

I agree, Kit. The spell was modified on Dasaria 1. I'm sure it will be fixed here too eventually.

broncoblitz · Post by **broncoblitz** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:33 am

Or maybe we could have Jay add more illusionary based spells and then remove the ability to percieve hidden creatrues entirely.

Come on Jay you know you want em!

Post by **Jay Four** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:46 pm

Changes like this are not real difficult to do, maybe 10 minutes to change, 20 minutes to test, and then minor bug fixes for the next week as clever players find all sorts of things you never thought of. heh.

The real trick is making it all balance out properly. You get a lot of unintended side-effects. Personally I don't even light spot and listen bonuses. Thats not what it's supposed to do either, although admittedly it's not as bad what is effectively an infinite bonus. But yeah. the automatic spot must go, and it will.

I do tend to like to sit on these things for a while though. I find that ideas incubate pretty well after a while. Sometimes better answers come up, sometimes a patch fixes it on it's own.

And yes, BB - I'd love to see some real illusion spells. I dunno if it is possible to even remotely do it justice though. Maybe we could have illusionary monster summoning, or illusionary fireballs or something, that TS would provide immunity to. It would be tough though, and disbelieveing would be just under impossible to do "by the book", particularlly with the metagame knowledge people have.

xAndersx · Post by **xAndersx** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:08 pm

I don't agree with nerfing True Seeing. It's a very situational spell, and those tend to have a more powerful effect when they can actually be used.

If it still gets nerfed as suggested above, in my opinion it should have its spell level lowered or, alternatively, be given increased duration.

obsoletenihilist · Post by **obsoletenihilist** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:08 pm

Jay Four wrote: It would be tough though, and disbelieveing would be just under impossible to do "by the book", particularlly with the metagame knowledge people have.

Will saves instead of reflex or fort saves perhaps? Like you toss an illusionary fireball and they make a will save or it damages them for magic damage instead of fire damage. If they make the will save it doesn't do a thing.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:14 am

xAndersx wrote:I don't agree with nerfing True Seeing. It's a very situational spell, and those tend to have a more powerful effect when they can actually be used.

If it still gets nerfed as suggested above, in my opinion it should have its spell level lowered or, alternatively, be given increased duration.

The duration is long enough (or can be made long enough with extend) that mages will always have it running. Or, at the least, can run it long enough that it outlasts the rest timer.

xAndersx · Post by **xAndersx** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:41 pm

Stormknife wrote:
xAndersx wrote:I don't agree with nerfing True Seeing. It's a very situational spell, and those tend to have a more powerful effect when they can actually be used.

If it still gets nerfed as suggested above, in my opinion it should have its spell level lowered or, alternatively, be given increased duration.
The duration is long enough (or can be made long enough with extend) that mages will always have it running. Or, at the least, can run it long enough that it outlasts the rest timer.

Ah, alright. Lower level then.

muletang · Post by **muletang** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:47 pm

the only problem i had with true seeing and those spells in Das1 was that people would sit around with them permacast making it rather naughty for little sneaks to do their sneaking! ha, make anyone who takes the spell receive a pair of specs in their inventory with the eyeballs on springs. All fair then in my opinion

Post by **Peregrinus** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:00 am

You know, mages wouldn't have had it cast all the time had it not been that every evil mage and rogue would come sneaking about at all times. If they'd laid off the invis or sneaking and found other ways of making trouble, we might have forgotten it occasionally.

As it was, I only cast it when I suspected something was going on, or when I was trying to interact with an invisible character.

Wait to nerf the spell, and if you do nerf it, don't make it so that its completely worthless to take like it ended up in Dasaria 1.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:29 pm

Oh please. Even if there weren't any evil rogues or mages logged on, people still had it running constantly in Das1.

Xira · Post by **Xira** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:21 pm

If das 1 is anything like das 2 ....I am very not surprised at all that they had it running 24/7.

Das 2 is LITTERED with thieves. I know people lose halberds, great axes, full plate, not to mention tons of rare crafting components.

You may think it's fun to role play a thief, but so do 50 other uber-kiddies. The result is what we have now....Even if 'you' only steal twice from the same person a day, you and the 15 other thieves can strip a person clean in a single play session.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:26 pm

It's hardly that bad.