Dasaria II - A NWN2 Roleplay and Story-driven Persistent World

First off, don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean this to be a complaining thread in any way shape or form; however, speaking as a DM myself and as a player here, there are many things that have been done right, and some that have been done wrong. Dasaria is an excellent server with a great DM staff, but everyone is human and I hope you'll not take some random constructive critisism as personal attacks.

I've been on Dasaria for a while and seen my fair share of DM events and had a bit of DM interaction. The vast majority of the time these are great, but sometimes things happen that could have been done better. I'll try and give specific examples for things that I put up.

The first major thing I think that should be noted is that on a multiplayer RPG, major quests should not require specific players to move forward. What do I mean by this? Take the Four Horsemen plot for instance. The Books that had sealed the Horsemen had to be given to specific religious PCs in the world in order for them to be resealed. This lead to problems as one of the major PCs, Shadow, was an irregular player at best. It was end-run around, of course, but it caused considerable frustration among some players (myself not among them as I was only marginally involved in that plot.). Another example of this was the Desecration of the Temple of Anu in 'Lingville. While initially player instigated, the DMs picked it up, or at least one did. To cleanse the temple it was determined that only one PC could do it and basically railroaded the plot and gave other PCs very little reason to be involved in those events (I very nearly walked out on an even out of disgust in this example.).

This leads to point two. Try and avoid plot railroading. The previous example is the only time it really stands out to me, but every DM (especially myself) needs to be reminded of this from time to time.

A third point in this is to try and avoid both deus ex machina and using an old DM PC as your avatar. I think we all know who I'm refering to here *cough*Cirran*cough*. Heh, anyway, Cirran was an excellent DM, but had one major flaw, he always used himself as a major player in his plots. I understand the lure of doing this, but at the same time, it was kinda annoying as it made him seem more important than others involved in the world.

Going in another direction, be approachable. I know some people here like the idea of announymous DMs, but to me this is a very bad thing because it builds a wall between the players and the DMs. I hope nobody takes this personally, but frankly, I think Wyv is a better DM than Jeh in this reguard. Even when Wyv and I had some ongoing fued like stuff, if it game to purely game issues, he was always willing to help and get us out of some bug or to be a friendly ear about game stuff. Meanwhile, Jeh was unapproachable and distant. CL found a middle ground here, if you caught him in game he was willing to chat and discuss things (I foundly remember a... "discussion" we had about him hitting Lee Tennick with an allignment hit for hanging out with an EoS). Now, this is not to say to pubically declare your PCs or IM names, being able to stay private is an important thing and being able to unwind by playing instead of DMing is also critical to you, so try and find a middle ground between privacy and approachability. A challenge, I know, and I promise to not abuse that fact I have your MSN Wyv.

Do more random role-play via the exsisting NPCs. Some of my favorite random stuff happens when the DMs just start doing things like a random Redboot joining a conversation, or the innkeepers yelling at us or having a group of redboots escort me to prison. It keeps things fun and interesting if the world seems more alive by random interactions rather than just NPCs who float about like just more objects.

Remember to encourage players taking the lead, if a character jumps up who you didn't expect to, and did something unexpected that makes sense, try and work with it or reward it in some way. At the same time, don't allow these type of people to become dominate in the plot (this ties back to point one), important yes, but make sure that plots can move on without them.

I'm sure there is other advice that others can give, and if I think of anything else, I'll post it. Again, I hope you don't take this as complaining or as being negative about your skills. I look forward to Dasaria 2 and to adventuring with everyone once again.

From a players perspective, and I'm sure you DM's know it too, big massive events just don't work.

In theory they are epic on the grandest of scales and the lead to these huge campaign changing battles makes us all very excited and leads to some great RP. But then our old arch nemisis Darth Lag rears its mighty head to shatter any hopes of smooth confrontation. Not even IGMS can stop it's mighty grasp. It also has a lot to do with so many players who arn't really apart of an army/guild organised group, and rarely with such a massive ammount of people will everyone follow what's best for the group. People always run ahead thinking they are the heros and respond with hostility when asked OOC if they could slow down a bit and move with the group.

Clearly by far the greatest of all events I have ever participated in are the random ones that spring up while people are just RPing in town. One of the my favourite sessions of all was when we were just cruising along in Daris and all of a sudden over the shout channel came: *Warning bells can be heard from east.* This sparked off an awesome event where the Whirling Serpent and Baraan farming areas were overrun by Varanites and we gathered a force lead by Ash tp push them back. It was just awesome fun with no build up and expectations that added so much dynamic to the world.

I agree with Falson's words on centralising too much on one character, but all that said though CL's ghost mystery event he conducted with Til was so freaking awesome. I 'spose that counted as a player focused one but he did it in a way that didn't make me go "Look at me!" but instead "Ah crap help me!"

Either way there's no critisism here, just things that I found really worked from a player perspective. I'm sure one day you will crack the way to make an epic sized event awesome.

As long as we don't have to sit around in a dark forest for a month and a half this time around, the dm's can do whatever they want

*blinks* uh oh, I finally agree with Bronc on something. Is that one of the signs of the End of Days?

Ahh, the great four horsemen blunder. My biggest mistake as a DM and my biggest success. Still quite comical set of events there.

The PCs werent really targeted Pere, it was when i logged on a specific avatar that had one of the four books on them. I marked down who had the books until the players threw me for a large loop, they tried to blackmail the storyline.

I recall a great conversation on ICQ about having to log in PCs from the vault to find which mule had the book, and put it back into game. All the while i had a nice PM sitting on my account telling me that a certain group of players would not continue the event until i gave certain items and bonuses out to groups, while other players were telling me they would not get involved until I gave them specific attention.

The event dragged on much longer than it ever should (hehe, much to the displeasure of Wyv yelling at me) since i was quite content to let the players fail and get nothing. While at the same time, it was a success from some of the unknown PCs stepping up to really get themselves involved.

Trust me Pere, things are so far different on this side of the screen, ive yet to decide if I will have much of a DM presence or even play on Das 2.

CL, if that is that case, and I do believe you, then you probably did the best you could to handle it, I only know what I saw and was told by certain people, and based my comments off of that.

Perhaps this leads me to another thing, be more open about what goes on behind the DM screen. I'd go so far as to say on the old forums, once Das2 is launched, open up all the old faction forums and the DM forums to allow people to see "behind the screen" as it were. Also, don't be afraid to let players know if there's a problem with something, we do know you're only human, and keeping things a seperate as they are, in my mind, hurts the community more than it helps.

he was always willing to help and get us out of some bug or to be a friendly ear about game stuff. Meanwhile, Jeh was unapproachable

I always respond to player PMs and communications. I do not however always respond to request for favors: custom items and the like. Even if I recieve a request that I cannot handle, I pass it to an active team member. If you got service from the DM team, you can be assured that on some level, I was consulted and involved even if you did not see my persona in game. I would be interested to hear the example of what led you to believe i was not approachable. My ICQ is on 24-7 and i check the forum and emails daily. If you ask me for something on a public forum: I may or may not see it but there are half a dozen ways to contact me directly. I am sure there are many players who can attest to that.

Not every request I get is going to get support: there are time constraits, campaign consequence, and many factors that go into that. We are human after all.

Believe me, we have seen and learned from many mistakes made in the first campaign and improvement in the areas are a major priority.

I bluntly discouraged the use of Cirrans avatar but he wouldnt have it any other way. I dont think we will be seeing that again.

Also, we as administrators and DM's cannot cater to each person personally all of the time. I try to avoid getting into situations where one person is getting the majority of my development and dm time. I think that has been thrown in my face in the past and that is also a lesson learned.

Now, in the latter days of Dasaria (years 3-4 which I believe is your primte time in das)I there were times where I was not around much due to rl isuues and priorities and the same can be said for any DM's. We are talking about a four year span. No one can maintain a constant "catering to" for four years. I have spent untold effort just keeping the ship above water and when all my dms were gone from time to time..geuss who was left to mop up the mess. I always did make sure the ship was manned, as I consider my role primarily as a project lead/developer and secondary a DM.

once Das2 is launched, open up all the old faction forums and the DM forums to allow people to see "behind the screen" as it were.

Factions are player property. If the faction leader instructs us to open up the forums then we will. If they do not, then we will not.

Also, our statements and appearances can have dire consequences to the player base's enjoyment.

A key part of the Dasarian Philosophy is to give power to the players. I dont want our DMs to steer the campaign but rather to ochestrate realistic campaign changes responses on the players actions. I have always had a distaste for spotlight dms. Thats just me...

I have run hundreds of dm events without a player knowing that it was me and that is the way I like it. I prefer to leave what is behind the scenes...behind the scenes.

I’m all for DM’s NOT showing there hand for 2 reasons –

1) Jeh and the team ain’t stupid – (well… not sure abo.. oh.. yeah no.. there all very clever people.. and all very, very nice (can I use the 2nd very there? Deph isn’t on the staff anymore? Okay 2 lots of ‘very’ it is then!)) if they give all the players an open hand and show them the working behind the scenes – even when it’s a situation where things might of got out of hand then they will be inundated with good advice and complaints, suggestions of how to run things better etc.. as if they don’t get enough already (fair’s fair though guys.. you know my advice is sound.. and it’s only one PM/email a day now..)

2) Totally with Jeh on keeping things behind the scenes – when I play and want to get stuck in to some good RP then I want that suspension of belief – that’s hard enough looking at a group a pixels (however pretty) and when a plot is pushed (not something I’ve seen the DM’s here do.. at least not in an obvious fashion!) opposed to player lead then it doesn’t help suspend the belief – nothing better in my book than running about.. killing here and there and suddenly realising that the monsters have got a whole lot smarter all of a sudden and that ‘hiding round the corner and picking them off one by one’ isn’t going to cut it anymore..

Dm Chicken Little wrote:Trust me Pere, things are so far different on this side of the screen, ive yet to decide if I will have much of a DM presence or even play on Das 2.

Hope you do mate - either as a player or a DM - not having you there will be a loss that's for sure.

baby1111007 wrote:*blinks* uh oh, I finally agree with Bronc on something. Is that one of the signs of the End of Days?

It does hurt when that happen doesn't it? Been many a time when I’ve felt the need to drink a bottle or two 'cos I’ve been obliged to agree with Dasaria's best known Bard..

Loki wrote:

baby1111007 wrote:*blinks* uh oh, I finally agree with Bronc on something. Is that one of the signs of the End of Days?

It does hurt when that happen doesn't it? Been many a time when I’ve felt the need to drink a bottle or two 'cos I’ve been obliged to agree with Dasaria's best known Bard..

When did you ever agree with Teleiri about anything?

Loki wrote:I’m all for DM’s NOT showing there hand for 2 reasons –

1) Jeh and the team ain’t stupid – (well… not sure abo.. oh.. yeah no.. there all very clever people.. and all very, very nice (can I use the 2nd very there? Deph isn’t on the staff anymore? Okay 2 lots of ‘very’ it is then!)) if they give all the players an open hand and show them the working behind the scenes – even when it’s a situation where things might of got out of hand then they will be inundated with good advice and complaints, suggestions of how to run things better etc.. as if they don’t get enough already (fair’s fair though guys.. you know my advice is sound.. and it’s only one PM/email a day now..)

2) Totally with Jeh on keeping things behind the scenes – when I play and want to get stuck in to some good RP then I want that suspension of belief – that’s hard enough looking at a group a pixels (however pretty) and when a plot is pushed (not something I’ve seen the DM’s here do.. at least not in an obvious fashion!) opposed to player lead then it doesn’t help suspend the belief – nothing better in my book than running about.. killing here and there and suddenly realising that the monsters have got a whole lot smarter all of a sudden and that ‘hiding round the corner and picking them off one by one’ isn’t going to cut it anymore..

This is basically what I was going to say, but with more periods.

Michelle and I don't mind the Redboot forums being opened up to the public. I think it's an awesome account of the server's history, even if it is one-sided.

I will make a sticky, where the old forum moderators can request the old boards be opened up.