Dasaria II - A NWN2 Roleplay and Story-driven Persistent World

Hi guys,

I hope some of you can help me with an arcane caster build. Over the three years since I've been with Dasaria, I've taken two Druids to level 15, one Bard to level 16, two different style rogues to level 12, now a Cleric to level 14, etc., but never really played an arcane caster. I hope someone can give me some advice on a build. Since my time in Dasaria is pretty erratic due to work and my wife's school, I can't really commit to join an ongoing group (the Euro group knows this--sorry guys). Because of this, I'd like the character to at least be viable to solo some of the time, though he doesn't have to be really uber or anything.

Here are the builds I was thinking of:

1. Fighter 2/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard 8. I kind of like this build for nostalgia's sake, because it reminds me of my old Elven Fighter/Mages from 2nd Edition. However, this doesn't seem like that big of a departure from a Bard or Cleric. The way I envision playing this character on Dasaria is memorizing lots of buffing spells, buffing up, then putting on some armor and playing like a buffed up Fighter, not casting much spells in combat (at least until later levels and Still Spell), etc.

2. Wizard 20 (probably some kind of specialist). In some ways, the pure Wizard is the character I want to try the most, because it's the biggest departure from my previous characters. However, I'm a little concerned about how to kill things. After I cast things like Mirror Image, Cat's Grace, Imp. Mage Armor, Shield, Spiderskin, Stoneskin, etc. to stay alive, it doesn't seem like I'll have much spells left over for combat and my BAB will stink too much to melee. This wouldn't be a problem if I was always with another person, but I don't see how I could really play alone (maybe using lots of wands?). Anyway if someone could chime in about their experiences with a pure wizard, such as how difficult it is to solo, etc., I would appreciate it.

3. Wizard 10/Eldritch Knight 10. This is basically the same as the pure wizard, except he gets less bonus feats. On the other hand, I envision being able to cast some spells in combat but being able to finish off opponents with an OK melee presence. Maybe this is the perfect mix of the above two builds?

4. I know nothing of Sorcerors, but I might be convinced to try one...

Anyway I would appreciate the advice of the veteran Dasaria players. What was your experience with these or similar builds, how fun were they to play, how challenging, what were some of your strategies, etc. Thank you!

I would recommend playing your no.1 if your planning on going solo.

I got a lvl 17 wizard. It has been rough, but very great times. I highly recommend it. If youre going pure, then prepare to switch playing styles a lot. And to experiment a lot.

But I wouldn't recommend it for soloing. When soloing it only takes one succesful enemy dispel to mess up your life. Thats it. And if you forget to memorize one important spell, then be prepared to wait a LONG time to rest/memorize again at high levels. You can run around the block, cook cajun for the whole block and watch all episodes of Friends before you're ready to rest and adventure again. If find it very very tiring to play a high lvl wizard. Without a bit of crafting skills and all the RP, then I would have dumped Al'Se'RhuSha(my wiz) a long time ago.

Lacking one spell, or enemy dispels, is not such a problem when in a group. And in a group you get to play with all the fun spells you can't afford to play with when alone.

So with a pure wizard the fun is with groups, unless you like waiting for pain.

Again: I would recommend you choose your option no.1 for a life of soloing

I have used option 1 and he can solo many areas - just watch out for the high lvl dungeons, only clerics seem to be able to solo those.

There are a couple of things you need to think about:

Do you want to fight wearing armour? If so, you need still spell and all your spells will be 1 lvl lower. I think it will be hard to solo in robes/LA because of AC

So you want to be a specialist or a generalist Wiz? The best specialists are necromancers but that may be hard from a rp point of view.

Be careful with your familiar! Never enter the bank with it out - Wired knows how many times it has made my character illegal. & it can mess up you character at other times, although no one seems to be able to find out why

Have fun - Eldrich knights have great versatility!

On the Sorc vs Wizard choice:

Sorcerers,as everyone knows gets less spells known in exchange for more spells per day. This is good for a party character, not so good if you end up soloing. My main character is a Sorc 10/ EK 3 (going for EK 10), and he plays like an interesting hybrid between a classic blaster and a buff up and hit things. The thing that makes this work is by careful spell selection and, ironically enough, a RP rule I have for the character: no necromancy. The thing to focus on with this type of build is generic buffs that help your defense and not having to have every buff spell like a wizard would. Then you take the attack spells you need, going with ones that fit a close-in mage's needs (IE at first level pick up Electric Grasp over Burning Hands).

I have to throw out here, Arcanists are worse at buffing up and hitting things than divine casters, but not because of bad buffs (they have very good ones) but because they lack any spells that can be thrown onto a weapon to increase it's damage output except Greater Magic Weapon. Therefor, if you're doing a melee mage your weapon will always be a secondary source of damage compared to your spells, especially as you get higher levels. Example: The level one spell Electric Grasp deal 5d6 damage by level 5 (average of 17.5 damage). Even if your using a +1 Greatsword and have an 18 Str (assuming a 14 with +4 from Bull's Strength) you sword swing hits for an average of 14 (2d6+7) Damage, plus you're more likely to hit with the spell (as it goes against Touch AC as opposed to full AC), and that's a level one spell. The way to deal with spellcasting and melee is make melee attacks as a filler for throwing spells, this is especially important in party play.

Low levels are hellish for arcanists of all stripes, low HD combined with low AB and often low AC makes them very squishy. No matter what you're going to want buffs that up your AC before anything else. There is also the problem of spell duration. Sure a level 1 wizard with a 14 Dex can have a 20 AC, for one minute, then it drops to 16 and a few minutes after that down to 12. As you reach higher levels it becomes easier to maintain buffs and do things, but until about caster level 7 the 1/minute a level buffs are somewhat hit or miss.

Are you specifically looking for a powerbuild? I can write up a build I have for a 20 wizard (I was going to make it myself and I have it on paper) for you. Mostly what race are you looking for? Sun elf is by far the best for das because of the ecl cap and that 2 extra int points at higher levels is huge (along with the spellcaster prodigy feat at level 1) will give you 1-2 extra slots of level 7 8 9 spells which is what most wizards are lacking in order to solo things (They are huge). A high level wizard can actually take more punishment then a high level cleric (I have a 20 wizard and a 20 cleric) he/she just cant beat up things for as long.

Main thing is to get you base defensive spells down first and formost. Attack spells should be secondary (Wands help in this regard such as issacs lesser missle storm).

Aa few feats that are pretty much essential for wizards.

Combat expertise
Improved combat expertise (please note these do NOT effect ranged touch attacks)
Spell caster prodigy (level 1)
Maximize spell (pretty much the only reason to take this is because of issacs greater missle storm, 220 damage no save against one target makes it arguably the hardest hitting spell in the game.)

A few optional ones that I personally enjoy but are not nessicary.

Extend spell (mostly for displacment)
Persistant spell (who can argue with perma haste)
Shield proficancy (2 extra AC with a mithril large shield might not seem like much but it counts, 0% arcane failure btw)
empower spell (just a few more options)
Feats I would argue against.

Spell penetration normal/greater Considering there are very few enemies that actually have sufficent spell resistance is one reason, the other is that 1 assay resisatnce spell pretty much makes any spell resistance moot. Along with mordankenians disjunction and greater spell breach)

Spell focus and/or school specialization (Considering spell focus doesnt matter much when you use the proper spells unless you want to be a death spell maniac, why im not sure.) This and shcool specialization is pretty much going to remove at least 1 or more very important defensive spells and you gain pretty much the same benifit from the spell focus feat its not really worth it.

Sorry im in a hurry and I have to go so this is just a rough outline of my suggestions. If you would like more indepth ideas or an actual character sheet let me know.

And ya, anything with eldtirch knight in it is pretty much gonna be exactly like a cleric. However a perma hasted horned demon with 5 attacks 56 AC and all those wizard buffs is Extremly appealing.

My main experience with Arcane Casters is Hyel, my secondary main character. While I can't say I've made him reach a high level and he works there, he does work in the up to level 8 areas. Hyel is more of a hybrid character that fits into all areas of expertise, mainly due to having most spells below level 5 (Infact that made him invalid for a bit heh). The only thing he doesn't use if fire spells due to RP reasons, and that can hurt your damage output. Still, there are more then enough electricity spells to give him enough attacks, especially along with his enchantments.

Things to note:

• For soloing make sure you have the spells dubbed by Hyel as "Skin" spells. In other words I find that Cats Grace, Bulls Strength and Bears endurance make a big difference. Cat's grace gives 2 AC, Bull's strength gives you 2 AB, and depending on your weapon 2-3 Damage. Bears Endurance gives you a bit more health, which always helps, along with giveing a +2 bonus to concentration.
• I found that spell focus became severly weak as Hyel leveled up. Spell focus enchantment, and greater spell focus enchantment meant he could use hold person on bugbears at level 4, and hold person and Tasha's hideous laughter still effect most enemies most of the time. However, don't even think of using it on mages, most have will saves higher then you could get with a level 9 mass hold monster spell. The only one I would consider is spell focus conjuration if you plan on going summoning and want Augment Summoning for +4 str and +4 con to your summon creature spells.
• I find that polymorph self is your best friend when soloing, or when you run out of spells (Goes nicely with the "Skin" spells), early game at least. The only bad part is it messes with your spells if you have any equipment that gives you bonuses to spell slots or intelligence bonus. The advanced polymorph spells, such as Tenser's Transformation make you as powerful as a fighter, and with the buffs on, even more so (+4 str, dex and con, with +10 AC, and damage reduction, with BAB of a fighter of equal level, and much higher hitpoints really can help).
• Knowing lots of spells can really help you with having the right spell for the situation. I find that scrolls work much better for having the right spell in the right situation then wands, but only for uncommon spells such as Lesser Spell Breach while you hunt through Bugbear caves (Theres one or two you can use it on in the entire cave). More common spells, such as fireball are good on wands. Just remember that they will have differnt spell levels, and although it may seem like a good idea to carry a wand of hold Monster, it doesn't mean its even as powerful as a level 5 wizard's level 3 spell hold person.

Thats all I can think of. Good luck, and theres always a certain mage guild laying about that you can join if you want more answers .

Thank you all for the responses, they're very helpful. And I think I've made a decision: I won't play build 1, because I've already played plenty of characters that can use swords and cast spells. And I won't play build 3 because, well...for the same reason, I guess. I'll try my hand at a pure Wizard.

I think this will be the character that is most unlike my others, and probably the character that will be most challenging (at least until higher levels). And I don't really need to be uber or anything; I have a Cleric to play for that! So I'll just have a try and see how it goes.

Thanks again for everyone that responded; now I just need to think about the specifics of this character. I guess I'm off to read some Wizard guides...

Hey guys, i thought i'd ask a few questions myself. I wanted to get some advice on building a well balanced warlock. Really this PC will be a RPing machine, but i do want to go out and have fun with friends...i was hoping for something that can handle soloing now and again, but as i will be spending most my time RPing or foaming with some friends...it doesnt need to be a killing machine.

Any advice?

In my experience, even a Human Warlock with the following stats will do OK in Dasaria:

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Wis 10
Int 14
Cha 14

This is about as average as it gets, stat-wise. You can play around with this a bit, of course, depending on the direction you're heading.

With 14 Int (as above) you should be able to invest in your primary skills (UMD, Lore, Concentration, Spellcraft) and even spend a little on Craft Alchemy in case you go the enchanter route (+ 2 languages!).

With 14 Dex you might be obligated to take the Leaps and Bounds invocation - it will help you squeeze most of the potential of light armors - ideally, you'll be adding either to your Dex or Cha when you level up, so you can get it even higher than 18 Dex with the Leaps and Bounds invoc. This stat also controls your Touch Attack, but touch attacks are very difficult to miss with.

14 Charisma won't do you wonders as far as your invocation DCs go, but remember that the warlock is a remote damage dealer first and foremost. Then again -- some invocations such as Noxious Blast and Draining Blast will rely on your enemies' saving throws, but they can be complete life-savers or neutralize enemies completely in some cases.

As far as feats go.... With the exception of Improved Critical (Ranged Touch Attack), I don't think you need anything specific. Luck of Heroes at 1st level is always a good choice, as is Toughness.

In short, Charisma and Dexterity in particular are your most important stats.

Thanks a lot. Thats real useful and it made things a whole lot easier.

Does anyone know whats the max loore needed here, because i didnt want to push my lore up to 20-30+ if the hardest item to identify only needs 15 or so...i thought i would throw that one out there, but its not too important.

Thanks again

Jamin H wrote:Thanks a lot. Thats real useful and it made things a whole lot easier.

Does anyone know whats the max loore needed here, because i didnt want to push my lore up to 20-30+ if the hardest item to identify only needs 15 or so...i thought i would throw that one out there, but its not too important.

Thanks again

Your max lore doesn't need to be that high. There are ways to increase it with items and spells so you'll be able to identify everything with around 12 points probably. However, there are some situations where having a ridiculously high social or lore skill would be advantageous. DMs sometimes do events where you can find out a little bit extra by passing a high DC check.

I'd go with what fits your characters personality and background. If you don't want the character to be a know it all then there's no need to have a high lore skill. At higher levels identifying items at vendors is very cheap. If you get identify as a spell, and are willing to use a few spell slots for it, then having lore to only identify items is a bit redundant.

There are also quests and things where a high skill like lore or spellcraft will make your life a little easier. Same thing with spot, search, listen etc.

Jamin H wrote:Thanks a lot. Thats real useful and it made things a whole lot easier.

Does anyone know whats the max loore needed here, because i didnt want to push my lore up to 20-30+ if the hardest item to identify only needs 15 or so...i thought i would throw that one out there, but its not too important.

Thanks again

From what I've seen at least to level 10ish most items only require a 5-10 Lore. Beyond that it is mainly for DM events, as they tend to have Lore checks for knowledge. The higher your lore the more chance that you will be able to figure out some secret history and make people's lives easier. But as Elrith said, if you only want to identify items, grab the identify spell, or don't bother. Its only 60-100 gold to Identify an item at a shop, and isn't worth skill points that you could put into a skill such as bluff, which will help you more often the Lore will.

Regarding Warlocks, they used to be a lot more powerful back when Use Magic Devices was more powerful (you only needed 6 ranks or so in the skill to use wands). Now that you need 20 ranks to use wands, you won't be able to cast spells like Improved Mage Armor from a wand until you get to level 15 or so! So keep that in mind; I don't think Warlocks can use wands the same way a Bard can. That is, someone with just 1 level of Bard can use a wand of Invisibility (because Invisibility is a "class spell" for Bards), but I don't think there are any "class spells" for Warlocks in the same manner.

I could be wrong, though...

Lore is also helpful when you want to distinguish OOC from IC knowledge.

Example: I, personally, know a great amount of the history, culture and general lore of Dasaria, being a long term player and one of the main folk who work on the wiki. My character Phelan, however, does not have access to all the knowledge I do. When I feel that the knowledge of the world I have exceeds Phelan's (which is most of the time), but he might know it, I roll a quick lore check and see how he does. If he does well, he gets a quick glance into my depth of Dasarian knowledge, if he fails, well, sorry to say he'd left in the dark.

I'll give you an example: Azak Kel leaves.

Everyone, or rather, most players, know how they're used to enter the dreamscape given the proper circumstances, but most common folks (IC) likely don't even know they exist. Further, they were part of Shai Orc rituals, and most folks, even adventures, don't know that the leaves are actually exceedingly toxic outside those circumstances. In fact, they were so toxic that they could outright kill anyone who ingested them outside of the proper circumstances. It is also noteworthy that most high level adventures who worked out of Daris during the time period of Dasaria 1 carried at least one of these leaves (for OOC concerns*) with them, likely so they could eat them to prevent capture by Varanite forces.

I know all this right off the top of my head, I don't have to even bother looking up anything. Phelan, however, doesn't have access to all this knowledge. When he encountered them in the quest they appear in for the first time, I made a quick lore roll and saw how well he did (he rolled quite well), and so determined that he knew most of what I just wrote down, and let him rattle it off. If he had failed, (my general mental DC slides, minimum is DC 20 and it works its way up from there) he wouldn't have known anything about the leaves except what he gleaned from the circumstances.

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* The OOC concern was basically a just in case circumstance. There were some zones in Dasaria 1 that occasionally the door to the exit script would misfire or somehow the enemy who dropped the key dropped it in an inaccessible place. Since these were generally major boss fights, the way in was one way, so you couldn't backtrack. In case this sort of thing happened (and is often did with a certain dracolich), we carried Azak Kel leaves so that after we finished, we could eat the leaves, die, and respawn in Daris... this was of course a last resort after DM appeal, and included an GP and XP hit, but it was better than being stuck until the respawn kills you (which for these types of bosses was a long time) or the server reset.

-.- I can see what im gettin myself in for...theres gonna have to be a lot of research done on my part. My warlcok is meant to know all there is to know...well eventually know all there is to know about magic devices and ruins and scrolls and wands and this and that. I think i shot myself in the head(forget the foot) lol, it'll be fun though. I better get searching.