Dasaria II - A NWN2 Roleplay and Story-driven Persistent World

So, I've just reached lvl 6 and starting to feel pretty good. That said though, I still hit like a wet rag. Am I being an utter moron for levelling purely as a rogue? Is it a viable class to level as at all? I seem a bit...useless...unless in a group where I can get in a few backstabs.

Well Rogue is in Dasaria hard class to lvl and almoust need good party always. But you maybe need get some class fighter to gain some feats and to take shadowdancers class to so you can take "Hide in sight" and that helps little too?

I'm a fan of full levels of any single class. Stay true!

Rp wise i guess it makes no difference what class you are and going rogue is always nice.If you still wanna fight decently get 1 lvl of shadowdancer for that feat "hide in plain sight" so you can hit and hide at will.I'm sure sneak attack will make up for the lower base dmg.
But if you don't care just RP how you like it,what kind of rogue are you?More of a brigand?thief?assassin?There is really alot you can do with this class.

Well as far as I know there has been only one pure Rogue in Das to make it to lvl 20 but with the changes and the way he played it made it I wouldn't recommend.

I'd say it would be beneficial for you to add in a little something different but stick to your Chars personality and base your build choices on that. If she'd rather hide than kill someone choose Shadow dancer over Assassin or if she is a stickler for a specific weapon throw in some weapon master. Rogue esq chars are great fun to play but it's not easy and if the party your adventuring with just do them as quickly as possible you'll kinda feel redundant

Rogue is one of the classes that are very hard to solo, but shine in groups. Also note, Rogues are especially useful at high levels for dealing with traps and such, in fact, if I knew of any good-aligned rogues who were trustworthy, I'd be proactively trying to recruit them into the AV simply due to their usefulness in that regard. The big thing is getting sneak attack regularly, and there's a few ways to do it. The first is to give into the cheese and take one (or two) levels of Shadowdancer (that second level can be useful to races that don't get special vision modes). Another is building for Feint, though I'm not sure how well it works in general.

Another way to help buff a rogue: take three levels of Swashbuckler if you have a good INT mod. That helps your damage on attacks you don't get sneak on, plus gives extra HP and other benefits.

Good rogues are godsends to a party, keep up the good work.

Rogue is a great, well-balanced and flexible class, high skills, high damage, excellent for roleplay. It's fine on it's own, but many people find dips into fighter or ranger for TWF feats beneficial (rogue/fighter I find a very potent combination), and of course there's the HIPS route via Assassin or Shadowdancer, which is an extremely powerful boost to your stealthing and remarkably improves survivability in melee.

What you will not do as a Rogue obviously is tank, and of course you cannot exercise some of your better tactical advantages against undead and other sneak-immune opponents.

Dungeons on Dasaria are supposed to be difficult and party-oriented. Pure rogue is not a class that is going to have an easy time power-cleaning dungeons -- which practice has NEVER been a design objective here -- though some people who play here are quite adept with the rules of the system and are capable of outputting all types of 'uber' builds (If you'd like some advice on 'hardening' your rogue a bit, I'm sure you'll find some eager advice among some of our regular build-makers here).

Yes, people can just bash stuff or just run high-CON characters over traps and heal, and some do, which can make a rogue sometimes feel like they're not needed, but I'd blame that on their mindset / poor roleplay as opposed to any shortcomings of Rogue as a class.

Peregrinus wrote:...if I knew of any good-aligned rogues who were trustworthy, I'd be proactively trying to recruit them into the AV simply due to their usefulness in that regard. ...

Heh well my "Benjamin" is good lawfull scout rogue (15 rogue/4 fighter/1 shadowdancers)

Mad Dog Reno wrote:

Peregrinus wrote:...if I knew of any good-aligned rogues who were trustworthy, I'd be proactively trying to recruit them into the AV simply due to their usefulness in that regard. ...

Heh well my "Benjamin" is good lawfull scout rogue (15 rogue/4 fighter/1 shadowdancers)

Well, now I'll have to find out IC.

Stay true to your Rogue class. I don't play any pure Rogue classes as I had always planned to have the two characters with rogue levels to be something other than a pure Rogue for RP. Rhode was always planned on being an assassin and De'mond was always planned with being a rogue/cleric.

Based on my playing De'mond I suggest taking the Feint feat and pumping points into buff to be able to use it. This way you will still be able to get your sneak attacks in without needing to hide from your opponents. One thing you need to remember is to avoid getting surrounded by all means possible. A rogue simply can not stand up to the beating that would take place. Another option is to keep a bow equipped in your inventory and allow someone else to tank for you. You will hit very often with the bow and will still get your sneak attacks as long as you are close enough and flanking them. The only problem with this is doing more damage to the opponent than the tank and pealing his attention from the tank to you. Its best to watch which npc your tank is concentrating ou and target that one instead of picking one at random.

Also, you can make use of the UMD skill which will allow you to use wands and some scrolls. With your reflex saves its possible to drop a fireball right at your feet and blast everything around you while taking minimal to no damage from the AOE spell.

Don't forget traps either. At higher levels you can pick up some really affective traps that can obliterate your opponents. DM wired spotted one of my traps once and told me that it was set with a DC of 62. Good luck disarming that without lots of points into the trap skills. And you get set traps while in stealth thereby surrounding your opponents without them realizing that their next step could mean death.

Another option for dealing your sneak attack damage is to take Feint.
You need take combat expertise to qualify for that feat,
but that is generally quite useful to have anyway.
Feint relies on the bluff skill tough.

Dasaria was built with party play in mind. If you have a well balanced party the content is easy in my opinion. Rogues are an excellent and fun addition to any party.

I soloed a rogue to level 13 before pressing the easy button (one level of shadow dancer). They are possible to solo, but it's pretty challenging. I suggest developing an intimate knowledge of traps. Know their effects, their saves DCs, etc. Deploying the right trap against the right enemy will win the battle. A 20th level fighter has a will save of about 6. Strong sonic trap has a DC of 17. One trap gives you a 50/50 chance of ruining the fighters day. Layer them to improve your odds. Recover the ones not set off. There are several places in game that sell them fairly cheaply and you get xp for recovering them.

Rogue is one of my favourite classes due to their flexibility, in fact of the 6 characters I play fairly regularly, 4 have sneak attack (Though only 2 have rogue). That said, I've never made a pure rogue, all have some dip in something, and some I don't play anymore. (Of all my characters in the past, I think I've had 8 characters in total with sneak attack dice). I've seen a few good pure rogues, I know of one or two that still actively play their pure rogue. Typically, to do any soloing a rogue will need to learn to take some form of defense, be it combat expertise or a shield/armour. Ranged weapons also help alot with sneak attacks, as you can get them within 15 feet (I know a rogue that used to point blank sneak attack people with a longbow).

The first is to give into the cheese and take one (or two) levels of Shadowdancer (that second level can be useful to races that don't get special vision modes).

Shadowdancer is a great way to increase strength, although assassin is available as well (At level due to HiPS. HiPS though is highly difficult to RP, personally I dislike getting a level of shadowdancer to get HiPS, and opt for the 8 levels of assassin.

Another is building for Feint, though I'm not sure how well it works in general.

Feint is a tricky one, you have to invest in it fairly well to make good use of it. Feint works by taking your bluff skill versus the enemies BAB + Spot skill. If you're fighting an enemy with high BAB, or high Spot, this is pretty much useless. Then again, fighting an enemy with high spot may make your HiPS useless too (Though I've rarely come across anything that can see over 40hide/MS besides players). However, this doesn't make the skill useless. Those typically with high spot or high BAB are archers and fighters. Archers tend to be squishy, and fall quickly to your sneak attack from hiding, or just from plain hitting them. Mages and rogues tend to have low BAB even if they have relatively high spot, so they are perfect targets. Your weakness is fighters, but thats with most rogues, be they Feint, HiPS or other.

I'd be proactively trying to recruit them into the AV simply due to their usefulness in that regard.

Georg Bauer, if he ever leaves the Fleet is a good choice .

What you will not do as a Rogue obviously is tank, and of course you cannot exercise some of your better tactical advantages against undead and other sneak-immune opponents.

Actually.... I have a rogue tank. They are quite nice. My rogue tank, whom coincidentally is my Exemplar Methos Rift. He also coincidentally is the purest of the rogues, being 90% rogue. He has the ability to do many different things, and I saw rogue as a way to compliment his style, even if it weakened him a bit. Most people wouldn't think that a man with fullplate and a tower shield is a rogue, but the fact that he has feint and sneak attack and disarm and knockdown, well hes a combat specialist not unlike but more RP flavoured then a fighter combat master. And in the end he even manages to get an RP bonus with lots of strong speaking skills.

Oh, and by the way most people hit like a wet rag at level 6, except pure fighter types (Paladin/fighter/barbarian) or clerics. There is a lot of strength in pure rogues with a high amount of sneak attack dice, crippling strike, improved evasion etc.

How many other classes can say they can completely avoid all AoE spells (Monk and Shadowdancer), or lower strength of those hit by sneak attacks (None, but Swashbuckler gets something similar for crits at level 18 or 20) or a feat to bring them back from death (Spirit shaman gets something similar at level 19), or even slippery a reroll of a will save(Shadowdancer, Swashbuckler or some clerics and spirit shamans(Something that for others costs 2 feats)) or +4 to sneak attacks(none)? Even just using it for a bonus feat, it can be used for anything something fighters can't even brag about, giving a rogue the equivalent of 7 feats between 10-20 compared to everyone-else's 3 (Wizards and fighters get feats, but from a special list not from everything).

In conclusion, rogues are great for parties, relatively easy to roleplay (Rogues can do almost anything, from tanking(Like Methos Rift) to spellcasting(Arcane Trickster) to dex (Shadowdancer/Assassin/Invisible Blade/Pure), they help parties by opening chests/disabling traps and they are probably a class most similar to the average human today.

"Full Rogue"