Public dicussion of Cear City Guard.

[EvilPyrate]

As a founding RedBoot, I can tell you that accountability is a big thing. If you want a guard faction that really works, NOBODY (yourselves included) can be above the law. As a matter of fact, you have to be absolutely beyond reproach.

Keep records of every incident. Details are good. The RedBoots were required to detail every single incident and arrest. This took up a good deal of my time either during or after a gaming session. The DMs regularly reviewed our arrest reports and gave us feedback and suggestions. I assume that this is going on now. It was a great help to us.

Yes, the laws of Varana are harsh and overbearing. To be effective and not earn the resentment of the players, the Guard will have to be fairly diplomatic. There's room for a few "bad eggs" but they should be the exception and not the rule.

Personally, I find the idea of the Guard collecting fines to be very problematic. Players will be the most hostile about this. If this is DM sanctioned, I would suggest giving the Guards an item that destroys the amount of gold specified by the writ. This removes the perception that the Guards are lining their own pockets by writing writs.

So, for what it's worth, there's my two bits.

[Minuvas]

As a founding RedBoot, I can tell you that accountability is a big thing. If you want a guard faction that really works, NOBODY (yourselves included) can be above the law. As a matter of fact, you have to be absolutely beyond reproach.

Keep records of every incident. Details are good. The RedBoots were required to detail every single incident and arrest. This took up a good deal of my time either during or after a gaming session. The DMs regularly reviewed our arrest reports and gave us feedback and suggestions. I assume that this is going on now. It was a great help to us.

Yes, the laws of Varana are harsh and overbearing. To be effective and not earn the resentment of the players, the Guard will have to be fairly diplomatic. There's room for a few "bad eggs" but they should be the exception and not the rule.

Personally, I find the idea of the Guard collecting fines to be very problematic. Players will be the most hostile about this. If this is DM sanctioned, I would suggest giving the Guards an item that destroys the amount of gold specified by the writ. This removes the perception that the Guards are lining their own pockets by writing writs.

So, for what it's worth, there's my two bits.

I agree with this point of view. From what I know, the Guards are making use of a Private forum - however being unable to see it, I can only guess as to what it contains. I would not be surprised if it contains a headache worths of "one time players" who logged on, broke every server rule possible, and never plan to return.

But I'm also sure it contains valuable information about individuals, and some good roleplay esque categorizations of everyones misdoings.

I agree that, the guards collecting Writs - seems odd, but the two enforcing the writs seem to collect appropriate funds, that no person (not even a first timer) might find difficult to arrange. For the most part, unless the person was a decent pain in the arse about the issue - I've seen Tren/Raymond , give Warnings, as a minimum seen them as for a 50 gold writ.

And for a heretic me and Raymond slew the other day, who openly proclaimed heresy - attacked us, and then decried the Emperor. The fine for the person (Who was purple to me, and probably had amassed a tremendous amount of gold) was 1,000 or so gold - the largest fine I've even seen considered.

If anything, there is a possibility of misuse - but these two have done an excellent job of enforcing the realism of it.

[broncoblitz]

Just kind of an idea im tossing out there

What about guardsman not being able to have any gold and any they get is automatically destroyed.

Then depending on rank and character level they could be issued all of the equipment they would need. Since they are government sanctioned it would make sense they would supply their troops with proper equipment.

[BeyondRedemption]

While I appreciate the input I think a lot of these suggestions are premature to say the least. I haven't had a single ooc complaint about the fines imposed as honestly they are pittance when compared to what you earn from dungeons and quests. The writs and associated fines are there to promote realism and immersion and that's all. I am also keeping a very careful accounting of all the gold collected and the DMs know about it. We are still devising a way to get it into the city coffers but there IS an exact accounting.

I actually differ in opinion quite a bit with White Wolf about this faction. Ray's IC motivation (and this is ooc knowledge so don't try to use it in game) was that Duty compelled him to join up in a time of need...and when that time is over he'll resign his commission. OOC, my motivation is to help out the DMs give some consequences to IC actions that should NEVER take place in front of guards but happen anyway because NPC guards are just that: NPCs.

So seriously, I understand your concerns but now you have a little more information to work with that should ameliorate them.

[EvilPyrate]

The issue with writs and payment to guards isn't actually what is or isn't done by the guards. It's the perception of the playerbase. This is why I proposed the idea of an item that takes the gold from the offender and destroys it. Make it crystal clear that the gold isn't paying for a shiny new jewel encrusted beat stick.

A player-run law enforcement faction lives or dies by the perceptions of the rest of the community. If they believe that you are righteous and just, they will respect you and follow your rules. If they believe otherwise, expect no end of frustration for them and you. It's not the deed, it's how the deed is seen.

The RedBoot incident threads were HUGE. Tons of griefing short-timers, plenty of offences by new players who then learned the ropes, and plenty of well RP'd encounters between the guards and lawless characters. It was a tossup on any given night whether I would be out adventuring and having fun or running around trying to uphold the town laws.

We had plenty of growing pains - something the Town Guard here will surely run into. There was never a shortage of characters who wanted to scream about the evils of the guards. I would suspect that there were more than a few players who resented us. It happens. We took applications from many characters to join the brigade. It was not a short or easy process.

This job isn't for everybody, and I will always salute those who take up the mantle and do it well.

[BeyondRedemption]

Right, I understand that. I'm just saying the only people questioning what's going on are those playing devil's advocate here and this certainly does not reflect the IC and OOC responses I've had in game. A huge chunk of this thread is a whole lot smoke with no fire.

[EvilPyrate]

I hear you. In fact, we most definitely agree on all of these points. I knew Tren was DM-sanctioned (and now I know you are as well), and therefore was working closely with the DM team for how law enforcement was handled, writs and all.

I've worked with Jeh a time two

I have no personal issues with any of it. I think that the immersion level SHOULD be kept up. I don't like the fact that any crime can be committed in front of the NPC guards with impunity. I want to see the level of realism from characters that I've come to associate with Dasaria.

All of my suggestions come from the hindsight of having already been in similar situations from my RedBoot days.

[Trinn]

(( y'know I agree with everything thats been said, wisdomly words wise. But hey, the Boot's did it, worked at it, did it well, and had to answer to and stand up for all kinds of stuff. And They didnt have the benefits of all this hindsight. So, I say, lets react to this as characters would, and lets let the new City Guard react and develop into something cool. It'll collapse or it wont, and if it does, it'll be how the story goes. I'm sure it will rise again anyway.

[BeyondRedemption]

I still don't see this as a faction to thrive or collapse. These are individual characters being guards instead of DMs possessing NPCs. If an individual character doesn't live up to it, he'll be kicked out, hanged, or whatever else they do to disgraced guards. The City Guard still lives on just the same.

[Stormknife]

I still don't see this as a faction to thrive or collapse. These are individual characters being guards instead of DMs possessing NPCs. If an individual character doesn't live up to it, he'll be kicked out, hanged, or whatever else they do to disgraced guards. The City Guard still lives on just the same.

Yeah, but all it takes it one or two bad guards to make the whole faction look bad. Even if the "bad" guardsman is punished for his behavior.

[BeyondRedemption]

I still don't see this as a faction to thrive or collapse. These are individual characters being guards instead of DMs possessing NPCs. If an individual character doesn't live up to it, he'll be kicked out, hanged, or whatever else they do to disgraced guards. The City Guard still lives on just the same.

Yeah, but all it takes it one or two bad guards to make the whole faction look bad. Even if the "bad" guardsman is punished for his behavior.

And all it takes is one public hanging to deal with it.

[Vahene]

I still don't see this as a faction to thrive or collapse. These are individual characters being guards instead of DMs possessing NPCs. If an individual character doesn't live up to it, he'll be kicked out, hanged, or whatever else they do to disgraced guards. The City Guard still lives on just the same.

Yeah, but all it takes it one or two bad guards to make the whole faction look bad. Even if the "bad" guardsman is punished for his behavior.

And all it takes is one public hanging to deal with it.

I don't think a hanging would do much. Just my opinion.

-K

[Kazak]

A bit change of the subject. But could we get a ruling from a DM on this. This whole circlet (crown) misunderstanding. Wearing that crown, is it breaking the law of the city or not?

I know Minuvas is pushing it for the law and got Tren to act on it. But I would like to know what's the real verdict is before I act on it IC.

Thanks.

[White Wolf935]

Well kazak. really it wont be enforced, we're not going to run around asking people to remove their headgear. Minuvas has however a very persudeing way specially over tren who is scared of the fellow, even if not showing it.

that was mostly ic of tren's affection. Tren isnt going to affect it for long after a bit of head whacking from the captain i'm sure tren would go back to allow them.


hope that answered it kazak

[Trinn]

OOC: I'll go out on a limb here. I'm sure the DM's love the fact that player chars are trying to start to hammer out some kind of civil agreement and extend some kind of sense of justice in Das2. I reckon they'd love it more if the characters fought and plotted amongst themselves to arrive at a solution. Ironed out the unpleasant facts, and enjoyed the playing space they created. You want to be the law? Then try and be the Law. See what happens next, and deal with it.

Assuming a crown, of law, or justice, or trade or murder. If its there, take it! Wear it, and if you like it, wield it!



uhm. going bed now drunk/