Some Unsolicited Advice to the Dasarian Dungeon Masters...

[Jehannum]

This led to a more negative view of the event

Did it ever occur to you to ask privately? Or offer to help in reaching a resolution? I dont blame CL for doing what he did. He does what he does as a volunteer and for entertainment. There is nothing fun about what those players did. If it was me at the helm of that event, I probably wouldnt have acted with such patience.

Also in regard to the need for DM personal privacy: You may not have noticed before, but attached to every post made by a dm...at the bottom there are about 5 or 6 buttons that tell all of the ways to privately contact a dm. I have ICQ, AIM, MSN, Email, and PM. I do not have any other IM numbers, and they are always on all of the time. My door is open, as it always has been.

I realy do appreciate some of the good points you made. I cant help but feel that some of your observations are based on your personal perspective which isnt always rooted in the facts. You made some good points, but lost some "umph" on some of the others.

[baby1111007]

I have two comments, and I hope no one takes this the wrong way.

We are starting a brand new campaign, based on the old one. We will be having many new faces join us and many old ones return.

That said, while I respect Falson's views and do believe he made some good points, why dredge up past mistakes and past grievences on these boards for potential new players to come on, read, and think:
1."Man, this place is just messed up as the place I played on last."
2, "The DMs here are obviously not very appraochable, maybe I will be better off somewhere else."
3. "Man look at all the messy politics that went on before, maybe I want to steer clear of this."

Falson, no offense to you, this would have been better off mailed to the DM staff if you had such issues with the past.

That said, I do think the staff has learned quite a bit from all that happened in the first campaign and we as players should be more concerned with seeing what is planned for the future then pointing out all the negatives from the past. Believe me, they know good and well when they screwed up, they dont need us armchair coaching them.

As for the DM forums, keep them locked and private. There are things that go on behind the scenes, discussed by staff, sent in by players when they are fustrated and having bad days, and other various topics that the community as a whole does not need to see. We had enough drama and gossip mongering on Das 1 that we do not need to be dragging all of that into Das 2.

We have the ability to start off with clean slates here. I think it would be irresponsible to dirty that all up with whatever mistakes were made in the past.

[Jay Four]

I guess I would agree with most of the points you origionally made Peregrinus. I would add that for the most part, the mistakes are pretty obivous now. It's not like we don't know what they are - heck, we lived them!

I guess I have to pick the same nit everyone else is picking. It's easy to get in touch - the preferred method (for me at least) is PM. Some DMs (like Jeh) actually post their ICQ numbers right there in their profile (Madness! madness, I say!) Also you posted this message here and got a several DM responses in like, a few hours. Here you are, having a dialog with DMs about how hard it is to have a dialog with DMs.... heh. It's pretty easy!

Of course, nobody knows what the DM forums might look like. But it probably looks something like this.... Behind the screen

I want the DM forums closed because I was asked to give honest opinions on things and people. I gave them in total confidence that they would not leave. I expect that confidence to be maintained. Further, if it was broken, I would never again be able to be honest in that forum - because always I would wonder if it might be opened some time down the line.

Amen on the whole Cirran issue. I hated it and I know I wasn't alone. It caused a lot of tension on the players and that tension spilled over into the DM forum. But he was very resolved to do it that way. I figured, well, what the heck, the guy has talant. Maybe he will find a way to make it work. I don't want to be telling creative types the terms under which they can sing and dance - even when it does go against my better judgement. Well, you can't ever say we aren't open to experiments.

One of the things I regret is how I let that come between us, but I guess we shared blame. Such a central part of his time with us, and it overshadowed everything else he did. It's a real shame he will probably be more remembered for that than some of the amazing quests he ran.

However, I did learn a little from it. When we had another super talented DM come on board, they wanted to do the same thing. Having learned just how bad it can go, I was a little more resolute myself this time. Unfortunately that really pissed the new DM off. They eventually quit and I probably have some responsibility the loss of a potentially great member. So, maybe I didn't learn as much as I think I did. In the end, I guess it's hard to say which is better.

I'm not really against talking about how we can improve. Maybe it'll scare new guys off? I dunno. But personally I like it when the DMs don't have a god complex and ruthlessly crush all dissent. How they deal with criticism is what is important to me. And I like it when people read and understand what other people are trying to say. So, I'm cool with it.

The whole horsemen saga had a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. Actually we sometimes laugh about it now. Probably the thing that stands out most in my mind is how OOC it eventually became. I don't know why it all came to a head for that event, but I suspect it was mostly timing. Some things had been brewing for a while and thats just the story that was going on when it happened. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that we all learned a lot from it. DMCL will be the 1st to tell you that :) He's a better DM for it too.

If I were going to criticise myself... Hm....
- Keep the events shorter. I always seem to run long.
- Remember to give out at least as much loot (potions) as people use up. I do tend to drain the coffers a bit more than I intend.
- Provide better closure at the end
- Work on my imprompty dialog (Wyv and Jeh know what I mean - hehehe)

That's all I have to say about that.

[broncoblitz]

But it probably looks something like this.... Behind the screen

I knew it! Conspiracy of the highest order!

[Wyvern]

*pokes j4*.....say something! that was your cue!

*silence*
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*more silence*
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"um...j4?"
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*crickets chirp*
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.
.
"Okay everyone, well! Um, what I was just saying....yes, let's get back to what I was just saying..."

No, I have no idea what you are talking about, J4.

[Vahene]

But it probably looks something like this.... Behind the screen

I knew it! Conspiracy of the highest order!

Anyone else notice how down right scary the posts are that CL 'authored'? "Kill them all!" Hehe.

The fourth from the bottom nearly made me choke on my drink.

-K

[Peregrinus]

J4... thank you... that look "behind the scene" was great. That picture along deserves to be in its own thread in the "classics" section. ;p

On a more serious note, I'll remember Cirran for the great plots he ran personally. To me the self-insertion was a minor irritant, but the single most memorable random mini-event I've even encountered was one done by him: the demon chicken.

By the way folks, I get the point about the DM forums... you can all stop repeating yourselves now. ;p

Jeh, on the Four Horsemen, I did become involved as much as I could, unfortunately, I came a bit late into that plot and by the time I did, I think the damage was already done. I became marginally involved when Falson caught the disease, and then a bit more when I think Death showed up, hells, I released one of the horsemen from their imprisonment (I have amusing memories of Wyvren taking the book and changing it two or three times because the way it was designed initially was that only an epic character could use the item to trigger the horseman's release.) I did what I could, but I've always felt that things with major world events should be done publically for all to see, and, incorrectly, assumed that others dealt with them the same way, well, except for the Nergalites, I assume they kept everything secret.

I know most of these points are made from my own observations, but even if they are false, the fact that someone saw things like these means something when wrong somewhere, maybe I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got the wrong idea, but I think most of them are better views than that.

[Tinkerhell]

Well just as a short statment on lots of this stuff:
I've always loved the DM staff here. Fun, talented, fair, human. That pretty much sums them up. They have great ideas, as a general rule they impelement them well and the players have fun with what goes on. And sometimes they screw up.

Can't ask for more than that.

The four hoursemen thing. I had no idea behind the scene out of game blackmailing went on there. I honestly don't recall much of the story line except the disease thing. I think Shadow still has the disease token and the book on his person. hehehe. Momentos. I also am sorry I was not able to play more at that time. I knew I was a central figure to that plot but that was at a point of craziness in my life and was on the back end of my enjoyment of nwn. Not to mention that the entire nergal thing had grown so far beyond anything I had ever hoped that it had actually left me behind -I just wasn't spending time every week on the server like it would have required to stay on top of that bull.

Epic events - gotta have em sometimes. The fight for the ruins of dasar was the best dm event I've ever been a part of. It was a blast and I will never forget the fun that we had. No matter that there was lag, delay, dm pauses, etc etc etc that's just part of online gaming in this medium.

My second favorite dm interaction are the times when small 3-5 man quests pop up & are led & overseen by one or two dm's. Not necessarily earthshaking type things, maybe just for a small item or some gold & exp at the end but those are always the best.

I'd personally never want to know when a dm is playing a pc. Keep that stuff secret. No matter how hard I try I will always have in the back of my mind thatt this character isn't really a player it's a dm and I might need to act differently around them.

DM's at 99.99% pure approachable. Period. Never had a problem with it.

Can't wait guys!!
Only 6 more days until they tell us the release is delayed.

[Grayle]

No matter how hard I try I will always have in the back of my mind thatt this character isn't really a player it's a dm and I might need to act differently around them.

I think this is the main point of the issue of anonymity. I originally brought it up in the forums, but the idea wasn't intended to keep players from knowing who is a Dm and who is not. The basis to which I was referring was that In-Game, the DM log in names would be "DM#1, DM#2, DM#3", etc. The motivation behind this suggestion was to make it so that outside influences wouldn't affect players who knew which DM was tending to whichever event was taking place. So, even though it is nearly impossible to not know Jay Four also plays the Redboot character _____, at least it wouldn't be blatently obvious that Jay Four was running this particular event. The suggestion was mostly to protect the DMs from such scrutinies...but if they don't see it as a big deal, I'm not going to worry about it. I tend to try to treat people the same, regardless of position, even if my characters don't.

On the other hand, I consider the DMs to be the ultimate critic as to whether I am playing my character appropriately. I am very appreciative of feedback from other players, and everyone loves a compliment, but even if the community told me I was playing a Druid incorrectly, if the DM staff considers it well-done, that's gonna be my aim. Coming from a tradition of table-top play, I know that if the DM understands the intent, and respects the story choices of his player, that is a good way to ensure that the DM sill attempt to support an outcome and fruition, wether for bad or good. Closure and a sense of resolution are very, very important to players and DMs alike. Sometimes, in Dasaria and all RPG campaigns, things fade away unaccomplished. Few things can be more discouraging.

I do agree that small-group spontaneous encounters and quests are the most fun. The smaller the party, the more players and thier characters have to rely on one another.

Knowing how hard it can be simply to coordinate events, spontaneous or planned, I respect the DMs' effort and thank them for all the work they put into this project. Mistakes will be made, and new ones will replace the old ones that many of us have learned from in Dasaria's first age. Hell, I've done lots of things I regret, from simple mis-steps to being a complete jackass, but the more I play, the more I learn, the better I get, the more satisfied I am. Hopefully, we all share this sentiment.

All-in-all, tho, I can't imagine playing anywhere else. I've seen enough brilliance here, from both players and staff, to exceed my expectations of a video game.

[Will]

A little bit of input from me, in the general sense of the topic.

The campaign that the DMs have given us here along with the community that play together make this server the unique game that I cannot get enough of. Being along for the ride is an adventure in itself, so let's keep it rolling on. That's all I really want to say. So here's to the years!

[Peregrinus]

I know that personally, I never played Falson any differently when I was playing with one of Wyv's PCs than I played otherwise (at least, not conciously). I think it was also useful to know that he was availible if there was a bug, though I tried to get a different DM if he was on and playing, but sometimes I had no choice... heh. (How many times did I end up bugging you about a party stuck down in Raven's lair after killing her Wyv?)

I think, in the end, how much anonymity a DM has should be up to the DM. Some DMs like to let their hair down and let people know who they are... Wyv for instance. Some let it be known some of the time but not all the time, like CL, while others prefer to remain in the background, unseen, unheard, but present, like Jeh. Perhaps you need a mix like that for everything to work.

[Starkwold]

Jeh has always been in a unique position because he has been an administrator from Day 1, and never was a player. That's the difference I think you're detecting. He doesn't have a "main" PC he use to play that was recognized (unless you want to count Jehannum Corum(sp?), but he didn't stick around).

As a player I found it easy to get in contact with Jeh, and he always replied to my inquiries quickly.

Nearly all the rest of the DM's (save a few) were players before they became DM's.

Most DM's too kept their DM identity a secret until it was eventually found out. Nearly every DM "persona" has been compromised one way or another. It's not very hard to figure it out.

I lasted maybe... two weeks before someone guessed it?

[LoFang]

Jeh has always been in a unique position because he has been an administrator from Day 1, and never was a player. That's the difference I think you're detecting. He doesn't have a "main" PC he use to play that was recognized (unless you want to count Jehannum Corum(sp?), but he didn't stick around).

As a player I found it easy to get in contact with Jeh, and he always replied to my inquiries quickly.

Nearly all the rest of the DM's (save a few) were players before they became DM's.

Most DM's too kept their DM identity a secret until it was eventually found out. Nearly every DM "persona" has been compromised one way or another. It's not very hard to figure it out.

I lasted maybe... two weeks before someone guessed it?

I think personally, I never made my DM status a secret. There were upsides and downsides to that..