The Big List Of Spells

[Jimmy]

I stand corrected.

3.5 > 3.0

[Peregrinus]

Oh, most definately. Especially for Rangers.

[Yuna]

I agree some of the spells can be I win spells, but as player and mage like player. This time around i'm goin to be more responsible with them. Know how to use them in a way that it won't ruin other players fun. But sorry but I don't agree with makin certain spells weaker. Personally I think it make the mage not fun to play. Yes u need to think how to use the non lethal and minor or medium spells to help you. But havin on hand a spell that will almost kill ur opponent. To make thinkin of comin near you a good idea. For mage nickle and diming and enemy not fun. There a fighter comin at you more likely goin get into ur face and do alot massive damage. You cast lightning bolt. You damage him yes. But he in your face swinging and knockin you down. Game mostly goin to be over for the mage. If the maage is lucky he/she can try to charm or any defensive spell up but mostly likey the mage goin to loose in that situation i think. If I do decide to take bgymy hands it goin to be more for defense so that i cast on the enemy and high tale it out of there. Sorry but this whole thing about weakening mage spells been buggin me whole lot these months and when i was playin back when dasaria one was open. Hope no one get mad at me for getin it off my chest

[Wyvern]

I don't think the issue is with high powered spells. It is more to do with high powered spells for which there is no save or almost (and I stress almost because there is always something you can do, even if the chance of doing it is tiny) no defence against when used in PvP. And arguments for making the big hitting spells even more potent (Weapon focus for ranged touch spells, or even something like improved crit...) I think are just rather amusing. Sure, I will be the first to admit I love doing things like rounding up every beetle in the farmlands and them firebrand them all at once. Is it overkill? Sure! But it is great fun nonetheless. The problem arises, however, during PvP. D&D does not cater for PvP in any respect, and that is why there are balance issues, especially around mages versus the rest of the world.

[Peregrinus]

*cough*

Wyvren, I don't think using a feat to get a +1 on attack rolls is "overpowering" in any way, shape or form for mages. Remember, sorcerers get only 7 feats in total leveling up (8 if human), and Wizards get 10 (or 11), 3 of which must be item creation or metamagic. Improved critical mages can't get until they're level 15 (+7 BAB is a prereq for it). Considering that mages will typically be hurling only one ray a round, compared to a fighter who's taking between 4 and 8 attacks in the same time, I think improved crit will always favor fighters more than mages, and a mage who wastes a feat getting it will get very little reward.

Personally, I simply like having the option to be able to do stupid things like that. Its the same as Falson taking Exotic Weapons, and Weapon Focus: Katana. It didn't give him a huge advantage, but it gave him more flavor and a few more option than the typical sorcerer.

[Wyvern]

We are talking about improving the chances of doing 480 damage in one shot. By taking improved crit and thus doubling the chances of landing that damage, makes the spell more potent. Feats are cheap when you are talking about that sort of damage output.

[Peregrinus]

So it could possibly occur one in every 10 casts of a Maximized Disintergrate rather than every 1 in 20? Most fights won't last long enough to get off ten Maximized Disintergrates, assuming you have that many level 9 spells (even Falson didn't have that many). Provided, if you get lucky at the right time it can be devistating, but so is that scythe crit by a weaponmaster. That's also assuming that the target fails the fort save, which most things that you'd want to be doing 480 damage to will have absolutely insane fort saves to begin with, against those things, like say a Raven-esq creature, you'd only be doing 60 damage on a crit. Of course, even those things can fail a fort save, but Raven has failed her save on Undeath to Death, so anything is possible.

In the end, I think that it balances out, and if a person wants to take the feat on the off chance they'll get lucky, then they should be allowed to. Now, this isn't in your hands anyway, from what you've said NWN2 won't have Improved Crit: Ray, so its a moot point anyway.

[KoolestLoser]

...so its a moot point anyway.

Don't you mean a 'moo' point?

[Wyvern]

Problem spells are never a problem versus encounters. They are a problem in PvP. Any encounter can be balanced against any spell with enough tweaking. The same cannot be said for fighting another PC. No fighter can do 480 damage in a single strike. The maximum damage of a fighter in a single hit is probably in the region of 120-150. Yes that will hurt a mage, but it may not kill them. Yes, fighters do get more attacks per round. But 480 damage will kill any fighter. So we have a chance of a 1 shot kill that nukes your opponent, where your opponent has no chance of landing an equivalent hit, does it make sense to increase the chances of the one who can land the 1 shot hit actually landing it?

[broncoblitz]

Important question here does disintegrate destroy equipment? (as in is there anything in the script to suggest it does?)

Cause if so It'll be even more grief tastic.

[Peregrinus]

Bronco, if they kept to the PnP rules for Disintergrate, no it won't destroy equipment. Here's the PnP version of the spell. You'll notice the line:

A disintegrated creature’s equipment is unaffected.

If it did destroy equipment, then I think we'd all have issues with it.

Wyvren, while you're right about a single hit senario, the thing to look at is damage over a round and damage over a few rounds. Statistically, a fighter has a better chance to get that those crits than a mage would. Howso? A level 20 fighter in 3 rounds gets 12 attacks, assuming a 1 in 10 chance to crit, they're statistically guarenteed a crit, in the same time the mage has cast a total of 3 spells. Even if all those three spells was maximized disintergrate, they won't likely roll a crit.

Keep in mind one further thing, with touch attacks there is the potential to completely waste the cast spell. That means that a mage who misses their target now has wasted an entire round of actions, as opposed to a fighter who still has more attacks.

As to PvP, I will concede, it becomes harder to balance, but what you're saying is basically a 1 in 10 chance of basically a one shot is too often? How frequently do you think it would be fair for a mage to be able to one shot a character with a non-death spell?

Ironically, we're ignoring that fact that if you want someone to die, right now, in PvP, a lucky Maximized Disintergrate shot is not the way to go, but rather, casting Wail of the Banshee is.

[broncoblitz]

You both seem to be focusing on the possibility of 480 damage.

240 would still kill the vast majority of characters in one hit.

[Grayle]

Not to mention the old, unfashionable save or die spells that seem to get thrown about frequently like Slay Living, Death Spell, Finger of Death, Phantasmal Killer, Power Word: Kill, yada yada, etc...

Many Save or die spells that in Dasaria's history have had a more than 50% chance to kill any 20th level character (not protected by, you guessed it -a SPELL), outright.

At least Disintegrate will (and I do mean WILL) kill by doing hit points in damage. The spells that kill a character regardless of hit points are what annoy me. It makes me wonder why the only ability a melee character has that kills via saving throw is epic.

[Yuna]

Atleast one benefit of a fighter your most lucky are goin to save against then other class. Fighter have one of the better fortitude saves then any class too. Atleast it does damage we go back to the original disintergrate when it was either make ur save or die

[Wyvern]

I had an entire reply written out but I deleted it. But I will respond to this:

As to PvP, I will concede, it becomes harder to balance, but what you're saying is basically a 1 in 10 chance of basically a one shot is too often? How frequently do you think it would be fair for a mage to be able to one shot a character with a non-death spell?

I think a mage should have no chance to one-shot a character with a non-death spell in PvP. No other class can (barring poor constituion of your opponent), so why should a mage?