Well it's official - Expansion pack for NWN 2

[Vay]

Social power is nothing without physical power

I'm not trying to be antagonistic by saying this, but things really just might be quite a bit different on Dasaria 2 than your previous playing experiences on PW's. Just throwing that out there... It's hard to make such general statements about the dynamic of a persistent world for the reason that it is that... a PERSISTENT WORLD... in which players and DM's shape the story and the world day by day, minute by minute. Like I said, just throwing that out there. I don't think that limiting oneself to the mechanics of the game is even remotely touching the surface of where you can advance your character to in-game... After all, if you don't have any sort of interaction with other players and the world around you, then what's the point of even playing on a moderately role-play centered PW Story online mod?

[ErictheRed]

Also, you can still make an uber-build without epic levels, can't you? A Bard 1/Fighter 4/RDD 10/FB 5 is still allowed, as is Cleric 20, Fighter 2/Wizard 8/ Eldritch Knight 10, Monk 1/Cleric1/Druid18 and any other flavor-of-the-month uber build. Just because Dasaria might limit players to 20 levels doesn't mean that you can't still be "uber" in relation to other players, it just means that player's can't become level 40 Godlings running around killing Dragons in 1 hit.

[Griffin Ironfist]

Think of it like this. Sure, that person might only be a level 2 wizard, but you know what, they've been around a long time and happen to be friends with that high-level sorcerer and a high-level paladin, oh, and the Paladin, he leads the Lightbringer Order of Paladins and the sorcerer, well, she's a founding member of the Kingseeker Knights, and those two happen to know...

Right, extra levels give more power and social contacts none... frankly, I'd be more scared of that level 2 wizard than any 40th level loner.

Hmm, that smacks of borderline metagaming if you ask me! I would imagine many people taking advantage of their character knowing a friend, of a friend, of a friend I see the point, however, always have from the beginning.

Regardless, a level 20 loner, will still slap around that level 2 wizard with a lot of friends...

Being a loner, may be a roleplaying decision... Can't see too many megalomaniacal assassins making a ton of "buddies". Don't you know it's the quiet ones you need to be aware of, not the loud ones...

Extra levels will indeed give you extra social contacts... and more powerful ones at that. Friends in high places and all that jazz... brings about it's own rewards (such as an expanded retinue etc.).

[Kell]

Think of it like this. Sure, that person might only be a level 2 wizard, but you know what, they've been around a long time and happen to be friends with that high-level sorcerer and a high-level paladin, oh, and the Paladin, he leads the Lightbringer Order of Paladins and the sorcerer, well, she's a founding member of the Kingseeker Knights, and those two happen to know...

Right, extra levels give more power and social contacts none... frankly, I'd be more scared of that level 2 wizard than any 40th level loner.

Hmm, that smacks of borderline metagaming if you ask me! I would imagine many people taking advantage of their character knowing a friend, of a friend, of a friend I see the point, however, always have from the beginning.

Regardless, a level 20 loner, will still slap around that level 2 wizard with a lot of friends...

Being a loner, may be a roleplaying decision... Can't see too many megalomaniacal assassins making a ton of "buddies". Don't you know it's the quiet ones you need to be aware of, not the loud ones...

Extra levels will indeed give you extra social contacts... and more powerful ones at that. Friends in high places and all that jazz... brings about it's own rewards (such as an expanded retinue etc.).

Sure it reeks of metagaming, but not if it's actually roleplayed. And I think that that's what Peregrinus tried to say. If you're small but got powerful friends, you can still be pretty scary.

[Stormknife]

Regardless, a level 20 loner, will still slap around that level 2 wizard with a lot of friends...

Only if those friends aren't around.

[broncoblitz]

Any level 20 could wipe out any level 2 in a round. Thats more than enough to kill them and high tail it out of there before their friends even know what happened.

[broncoblitz]

Makes me miss timestop where any mage could wipe out a large group group just with timestop and wail of the banshee.

Godd times. Then even their friends aren't much help.

[Chia]

Extra levels will indeed give you extra social contacts... [snip] brings about it's own rewards (such as an expanded retinue etc.).

That makes no sense at all...

[broncoblitz]

Sure it makes sense. As you progress through levels your bound to encounter more people to work with.

If your level 2 and your friends are level 20 they know they cant ever count on you when the heat is really on. You can't develop the comraderie that comes with working through hard situations over the course of battle.

A lot happens while out questing besides just getting loot and xp. You learn to trust your friends in a fight. And when its all on the table that pansy of a level 2 aint going to do jack in a fight.

[Chia]

How does that relate to the consideration of level 20 cap or epic levels availability?

Somehow I doubt people will stop questing upon reaching whatever the maximum level is, so the bonding part you described will still occur, with the only difference being that some people will gain no experience points from it...

My comment related to using such an argument as a point in the discussion that epic levels, as implemented in NwN2, are beneficial for a PW.

[Vahene]

If you're small but got powerful friends, you can still be pretty scary.

Thought this bore repeating. Because it's pretty true.

Any level 20 could wipe out any level 2 in a round. Thats more than enough to kill them and high tail it out of there before their friends even know what happened.

I used to play a level 30 sorceress in a game where the level cap was 100+, and most of my character's friends were at least 20 levels and above over her. She taunted, teased, yelled at, shouted at, and started trouble with anyone who pissed her off, no matter what level they were.

So, don't tell me that a level 2 can't be powerful. That level 2 may not be able to kill that level 20, but the power of that level 2 is so underestimated in your statement it isn't funny. Not to mention that any character that is picking on someone 18 levels younger than them is probably a jerk, and not someone I'd want to RP with.

Case in point, last night Rhode and Faen got into it. Now, Faen hangs around people that are grossly over her level for the level range in this game, and I -know- Rhode is of a higer level than Faen. She struck back anyway, and the RPing was extremely fun, even though my younger character was on the losing side. You don't need levels to have fun. You don't need them to participate in server-wide quests.

Your statement is general, and unfounded. As someone who has played that level 2 in a room full of angry level 20's, you're way off base.

If your level 2 and your friends are level 20 they know they cant ever count on you when the heat is really on. You can't develop the comraderie that comes with working through hard situations over the course of battle.

Are we playing the same game?

When I first started playing Dasaria, and I wasn't level 20 in Das1, and I did tag along with quests, I could still help. Now, I might not have gotten experience for killing the creatures, but healing, and being a scout, and maybe dealing that finishing blow--those are all things that are pretty damn helpful. There are -server- quests, mind you, not just the regular ones, though I did go to Palemoon with Kell and Celadrith as Heaven, and I'm going to tell you that she probably was in -way- over her head with the level of those monsters. (as a side note, I really miss Palemoon )

People knew that in a battle, my sorceress could be counted on.

Levels don't automatically hand you social contacts, nor do they help you make friends. I've never once RPed with anyone who has said "Oh my gosh Mary, you are just so cool because you're like level 40!!!!" Give me a break.

K, irritated

[broncoblitz]

Sorry i thought the game was called Dungeons and Dragons, not Tea Parties and Social Butterflies. If your playing that game then yeah level 2 is plenty powerful.

[Vahene]

Sorry i thought the game was called Dungeons and Dragons, not Tea Parties and Social Butterflies. If your playing that game then yeah level 2 is plenty powerful.

Just remember, not everyone likes to powerhunt their way to the
maximum level available in the game. Some of us actually prefer taking
the more leisurely route, and actually role-playing along the way. Funny,
because I thought this was a role-playing game, with emphasis on the
role.

K

[Mon-da-oth]

Case in point, last night Rhode and Faen got into it. Now, Faen hangs around people that are grossly over her level for the level range in this game, and I -know- Rhode is of a higer level than Faen. She struck back anyway, and the RPing was extremely fun, even though my younger character was on the losing side. You don't need levels to have fun. You don't need them to participate in server-wide quests.

Losing side? Not hardly Faen got a kiss and a bath where as Rhode got burned and lost some coin. I would say Faen came out ahead.

Call it metagaming if you want but that level of RP I will only engage in with certain players. I have RP'd with you and several of the other characters that were gathered around the fountain last night before and I think that there is a mutal respect between us all. At any time if you had wanted me to stop I would have and I know the same curtousy would have been given to me. I agree, its not about levels its about respect for the person behind the screen and the friendships in and out of character that can be made.

Even though there are a huge difference in firepower on Faens side with Pylia, Draco, Satinka and the others there were still a few who stood on Rhodes side. This was just an example of IC friendships that were formed. Even little Mergo was there and I think he was about Faens level but he was standing close enough he would have caught any damaged dished out by the big guns on Faens side.

[SnorriHT]

The longevity and enjoyment of Das2 will be based on the strength and depth of the roleplaying; not how quickly a player can grind a character to level 20 or 30. Roleplaying can be done at any level.