Killing others...

AntiTheos · Post by **AntiTheos** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:51 am

Hello to everyone and sorry to disquss something like that but..

What happens if someone atacks you (kill you because he is like 1000 lvl above you) without any warning and without turning on Hostile???

Now before all try to see what happened let me explain how this hmm let me tell it accident really happened...

I got a quest for greedy and evil characters that asked me to kill a druid..
After a while i found the druid and eventually atacked him with intention to kill him..
After a little seconds i saw something coming from behind and i was lying dead to the road..
i saw a guy-girl (could not recognise because all of the buffs he-she had) comming on me and looking at me.
Ofcourse i asked why i got killed and told that i was atacking his sister and thats why he killed me...
now how would that be to kill someone WITHOUT turning on hostile..
Terres ofcourse finds it very cool as he is the one who killed me...

Now i dont know so much about your server because its just the second day i play in here... but as i read to the forums on the section with the rules of this server i did not see something that sayes that players should PK other without turning on hostile... i believe it says to the first lines of the PvP rules that NO PVP WITHOUT HOSTILE ON..

thank you for your time and i hope that this player gets banned

or else let me know about your ( special ) PvP settings of server..

Thank you and i apologise if i made any illegal action.. ( except cursing on the one who killed me)

sirius · Post by **sirius** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:09 am

Hello,

Firstly, it is possible to attack someone without turning "Hostile" on first via the Player List menu. Hostile is fairly important to spellcasters, because some spells won't work if you don't have the person set to Hostile, because it will treat them as an ally (or neutral person, whatever).

Secondly, I for one think attacking someone for pursuing a quest line isn't really fair, but there are some who do. This is a matter of how 'hardcore' the roleplaying is I think, and from what you tell me, it seems like Terres arrived after the incident - so from an RP perspective, she had no idea what had occurred, and who attacked who first - so Terres could have been murdering the victim of a wanton attack.

Of course, I wasn't present, so I guess I'll wait and see what Demos (who plays Terres) has to say. There's two sides to every story I suppose.

EDIT: A quick addendum. The kind of people doing this quest aren't always going to be people experienced with RPing, so the best thing to do is warn them OOC that someone less tolerant than you might attack them for doing such a thing. I've seen people attacking Sister Oriana a few times, but instead of attacking them I approach and discuss it OOC with them, so they know the risk they're taking by doing the quest that way - and if they did it again within my sight, I'd consider using force. However, I'm not a DM or anything, so anything I suggest is just that, a suggestion. Everyone plays differently.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:22 am

First, welcome to Dasaria.

Dasaria is a role playing server where your actions have consequences. You got caught attempting to murder someone and paid the price for it. Read the server rules again. Setting a character to hostile before attacking them is not a requirement. Based on what you've posted, the character who killed you had a good reason and no server rules were broken.

sirius · Post by **sirius** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:28 am

Rob is right, with respect to the rules, and in retrospect (after re-reading your post) it seems Terres WAS present for the incident. So it is sound.

Still, I wouldn't attack, I like to ensure people understand the repercussions of what they're doing before I make them pay for it.

Demos · Post by **Demos** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:46 am

I really did not mean to upset you. Terres was fuming about some other incidents that occured, and I was running up to the mill for respite. And then I see someone attacking the sister. Sorry, but I didnt see an alternative, but in retrospect I would have checked to see if your char was new to town or not. I dont mean to alienate anyone new trying out the server, but it was a situation I could not let rest. And for future notice once the expletives start flying, and rules being referred to I never heard of..; any thought I had to rectify the situation flew out the window.

AntiTheos · Post by **AntiTheos** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:15 am

PVP ruleset

The server is full PvP, for the RP opportunities and realism.

If you must PK, there had better be a good RP reason behind it. If you have to ask if "this case" is a good reason, it probably isn't. We do understand mistakes happen sometime however, and sparring with mutual concent is fine also. Please use some common sense with this. If you feel your paladin should take violent offense to an evil character killing innocents in the village, fine... as long as he's not some level 2 newbie while you're a level 12 veteran.

i believe that saies it all...

Guten Raynor · Post by **Guten Raynor** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:26 am

I killed a guy a few times with my Monk because he was spawn killing the sister.

I saw him do it, told him to stop and then engaged him, killing him.

I then envoked the PvP rule that he cannot return for an hour and went on my merry way.

Black Hand Enclave · Post by **Black Hand Enclave** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:32 pm

We can assure you that no warning and no quarter will be given on encountering our organization, unless of course your death is not required by contract.

It would be rather silly to turn people to hostile to attack them. This is especially true when one is being sneaky and/or witnesses an offensive action by another. We would however recommend the classic "You have forfieted your right to take in the air of these lands and now I shall perforate your lungs for your offense" or some such thing as is often offered before an attack in the movies and stuff. There are also times when a warning is completely inappropropriate. We are all smart enough to know the difference. A possible tact when faced with an opponent of great strength would be too beg for mercy. We particularly enjoy a good bit of grovelling before we rip out your immortal soul.

kikkelipoika · Post by **kikkelipoika** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:12 pm

Bah, souls aren't immortal. I eat 'em for breakfast, and i can assure you that they're not living after they're gone through my digestional system.

Mon-da-oth · Post by **Mon-da-oth** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:23 pm

Some people just don't like to be PK'd no matter what level they are.

Rhode has not pk'd anyone yet but has given a few sound beatings. Usually if there is a chance Rhode might attack, you should be able to tell ahead of time by watching what he does and listening to what he says. (Unless of course you are wandering around the village polymorphed as some strange monster)

In a few rare cases I have set a possible oppenent to hostile but it was as a reaction to the RP that was taking place. (Rhode was very pissed.) Most of the time he will attack without me setting the other person to hostile.

Tinuvhiell · Post by **Tinuvhiell** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:37 pm

Sometimes people don't check for levels before they attack. They should, but if they (and this is in-character, not OOC here) see your character doing something they find offensive or illegal, they might just attack you. I, personally, like it better if words are spoken first to initiate some give/take. Unless you are being hunted by an assassin, then you might just die. There are many, many variable to killing/being killed here, but it boils down to exp/gold loss, which is slight, and adding realism to the world. It is a dangerous place to adventure in.

Maybe, if you are going to kill the nice druid, you should try to lure her away from the road and away from the eyes of fellow travelers. Or, you could always explore other options when speaking to her again. You don't HAVE to kill her...

I do see where you are coming from here. If it was me being killed by a much higher level with no warning I would be frustrated too. And I'm glad you came here to discuss it and get different views on the situation.

Welcome to Dasaria!

LONOmakesWAR · Post by **LONOmakesWAR** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:51 pm

Well my only gripe here is that there was ZERO RP especialy for the player killed. Sounds to me like there wasnt even any communication at all between players IC.

My question is: Does a serious RP player realy see catching someone doing a quest as a reason to charge in and kill?? Or would an RP player see this as a chance for some IC interaction which MAY result in killing?

Perhaps your char wouldnt stand for seeing the sister get killed but there is some OOC info to take into acount here:

1. Victim is BRAND NEW PLAYER.
2. Victim is low level.
3. Victim may not have been an RP player.

I have been killed for attacking the Druid and it was when i was a new player. However it was done IC and was an enjoyable experiance for both me and my assailant.

Was this an enjoyable experiance for both players?? Did it result in enhanced character depth and understanding for EITHER chars??

No it did not so instead of wondering if rules were broke maybe wonder if a better aproach can be taken with RP and Consideration involved.

Post by **Vahene** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:50 pm

My question is: Does a serious RP player realy see catching someone doing a quest as a reason to charge in and kill?? Or would an RP player see this as a chance for some IC interaction which MAY result in killing?

I think for this particular quest, a player has to suspend their disbelief quite a bit. For a druid that might see his or her 'sister' slaughtered in front of them - one time, might produce some decent RP - but several more times, you can't explain away in game how the same person has been killed 10 times during one server reset without simply accepting, as the player that, yes, this is a quest, and we'll just go with it.

Having said that... I do not believe that any PC should be killed without warning, and certainly not unless they're set to hostile. I have had my highest level character (Faen), use Fireburst in a crowd, inside town, without repercussions.. as part of RP, but I also knew that by using that spell that none of these characters could die. I knew because I checked each one I wasn't sure about to see what their 'rating' was when I examined them.

Personally, my own opinion is that had I been playing the attacker in this case, they would have gotten a few warnings, some RP, and then if it persisted, or if my character couldn't change the other's mind about the slaying, it probably would have resulted in PvP combat with hostile being thrown probably sometime during the RP. That's anyone's last warning when it comes to any of my characters, for the record.

I can only post what I would have done, since I didn't witness the incident.

K

Demos · Post by **Demos** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:00 pm

I have to say my actions at the time were purley selfish in character. I was not considerate in the least, and normally I would do things different. I just got caught up in the moment, and I didnt consider anything about how it would effect the other player. It was basically just a straight reaction. I dont want to be that guy, I apologize, I really do know better. If you see my character in game AntiTheos feel free to confront her ill give you the respect I didnt at that time.

Judas · Post by **Judas** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:46 pm

If you can role-play an’ Ic problem with a players Ic actions before a Pvp fight then all the better . Players should try to do so if it is at all possible .. Thing is it isn’t always possible or even a good idea for the attacker .

If you play a Rogue you don’t want to show your cards to a powerful Magi or Fighter or anyone else for that matter before it’s too late for them .. Or perhaps the attackers target is powerful and regardless of class they need surprise , or they need their friends help to gang up on the target to come off on top .. Or perhaps the attacker is having a bad day and makes an’ error of judgement or acts with haste and not wisdom . Were all made of flesh and bone here , not stone ..

Problem is , like Mon-da-oth said , many players don’t like their ‘character bubble’ burst .. This bubble often surrounds an’ attitude something like “My character is a bad arse mighty adventurer the likes of which this land of men has never seen before” .. And there is nothing wrong with that .. After all who wants to play a senile , feeble , wizened old man without the strength to lift his own armour ? .. Infact I encourage players to walk around with an’ attitude , it’s good for role-play .. But when this bubble is suddenly popped it can come as something of a shock , and no one likes their world being shattered without warning ..

The important thing is to fix any Ooc bad blood with respectful tells and explain things ..