Something to look forward to...

Chia · Post by **Chia** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:09 pm

One of the clearer written articles on the topic. Sometimes, reading news makes me wonder what future there is for us all...

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/ ... 656034.ece

Mas · Post by **Mas** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:28 pm

Wow. A VERY interesting article. Thanks for the link.

kikkelipoika · Post by **kikkelipoika** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:37 pm

As the oil deposits dies out, the united states will propably follow. I don't think they can adjust to the changing world in time. The same might happen to europe. Hard times ahead, and propably more than a few large wars.

Depheant · Post by **Depheant** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:34 pm

Not that worried to be honest. For energy needs, nuclear power is the answer. Has been, and will be. It's about time those damn hippies stop worrying about it.

Also - when you hear talk of oil reserves, they're talking about oil that can be extracted given current technology. As it stands, only about 30% of the total discovered oil has been extracted. A lot of it is still there, there's just no way of getting it out at the moment.

The reason? Not economically viable, until "oil reserves" start running out. In the same way that biofuels aren't economically viable until oil is over 100 dollars a barrel.

Chia · Post by **Chia** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:59 pm

I.e. energy becomes that more expensive.

Given how our civilization relies on barely limited access to relatively free energy, where does that leave us?

Limited energy will destroy the global trade network as we know it. Certainly, countries can revert to more localized solutions, and some things will have to be simply done without, but I doubt the transition period will be pleasant to live through.

I wonder if we reached the point where the simple requirement of human race, as presently seen, exceeds the ability of the planet to support.

Meh. I'll be over there, digging my end-of-the-world shelter...

SnorriHT · Post by **SnorriHT** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:45 pm

I work for a renewable energy company, and the problem is this:

- The cost per megawatt of wind power and wave actions systems is higher than coal-fired powerstations;

- there are not enough rivers around the world to produce Hydro Electricity;

- Hydro generation uses Oil in the generation and supply of electricity (think transformers);

- Large scale Solar power generation will probably have the same high cost per megawatt as wind and wave action;

- Coal powerstations also uses LOTS of water in the generation of electricity. Australia relies on Coal-fired powerstations, and we've been in a drought for the last nine years;

While there is a lot of research into new energy generations systems and improvements, the only reliable source of energy of non-fossil fuel energy NOW is Nuclear Energy. Australia is likely to embrace Nuclear Energy as well, and the government is now talking to the USA and other countries to implement a regional carbon trading scheme to encourage the development of energy sources not reliant on burning fossil fuels, or making those coal or gas fired powerstations cleaner. The Australian government is also using what I think is a commonsense patchwork approach to the climate change issues; encouraging the development of Nuclear power, encouraging people to uses solar energy hot water cylinders, forging ahead with clean coal technology, and implementing a carbon trading scheme.

Unfortunately the Greens in Australia say NO to Nuclear Energy, NO to clean coal technology, NO to Windfarms and NO to Dams to generate Hydro Electricity, but are still quite prepared to drink their lattes' in the morning which probably cost 2 barrels of oil per cup to make, and read their newspapers (proudly supplied from illegal forestation in Indonesia). Talk is cheap, uninformed critiscism is cheaper, but finding a solution without destroying people's livelihoods is the hardest road for any government committed to climate change.

ChikenKannon · Post by **ChikenKannon** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:05 pm

Also remember another huge product which is created by oil. Plastic.

Chia · Post by **Chia** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:22 pm

Among other things that we take for granted (apparently computers, too).

It is not a pretty sight, world with restricted oil availability...

oaknott · Post by **oaknott** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:41 pm

There is a move in one of the sub Saharan African countries (I believe its Zambia) to make that country an oil producing nation despite the complete absence of any worthwhile fossil fuel deposits.

My figures are approximate but as far as I can recall Zambia is about three times the size of the UK, with a smaller population than London. The plan is to put masses of land down to vegetable-oil producing crops, and process this into bio diesel.

In South Africa in the days of apartheid when there was an embargo on fossil fuels being traded with the republik many farmers ran their tractors and other machinery on bio-diesel made from sunflower oil. The diesel engines didn't even need that much adjustment. It's proven technology.

OK the fossil fuels will run out, but that will just promote the renewable alternatives. The potential for bio-diesel is enormous, the main danger is that food crops will be supplanted by cash crops instead of new farmland being opened up. If that were to occur we would see famines like those in Biafra, Ethiopia and the Sudan in recent years, all of which were man made disasters.

The main result of the oil running out will be poverty in the Arabian Gulf, and an economic renaissance in sub-Saharan Africa. The West will continue to blunder on in its inimitable style.

lankycheese · Post by **lankycheese** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:38 am

NO to Nuclear Energy

I can't stand that they just right it off so easily. And then some government parties and the likes preach how dangerous it is and how it shouldn't be used, keeping the ignorant masses ignorant. Nuclear power is so damn awesome it's not funny, the product even coming out of the chimneys of those plants is just bloody steam! Yes the bi-product is dangerous but we have a whole massive outback that no one is using to bury the crap a million feat under!

People are still so affraid of what happened in Chernobyl, and the only reason that happened was because the Russian's decided to do a manual override on the balance of the reactor.

SnorriHT · Post by **SnorriHT** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:47 am

In fact Lanky, Australia already has a ready made Nuclear dumping ground (which I've been to) at Maralinga in South Australia. A Fascinating place!

urgualamand · Post by **urgualamand** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:21 am

This was well worth a watch to me:

http://www.break.com/index/tough-to-argue.html

Lord Zhengyi · Post by **Lord Zhengyi** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:48 pm

I embrace the imminent disaster. I long for the days when mankind roams on a post-apocalyptic wasteland in modified vehicles equipped with spikes and machine gun turrets while donning football pads and leather pants. I have been working on my feral grunting noises and trying to decide what color to dye my mowhawk.

My only question is, should I do the hockey mask thing, or do you think it's played out?

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:55 pm

Lord Zhengyi wrote:I embrace the imminent disaster. I long for the days when mankind roams on a post-apocalyptic wasteland in modified vehicles equipped with spikes and machine gun turrets while donning football pads and leather pants. I have been working on my feral grunting noises and trying to decide what color to dye my mowhawk.

My only question is, should I do the hockey mask thing, or do you think it's played out?

If you want that, join the Army and go to Iraq.

Chia · Post by **Chia** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:13 pm

Wyvern wrote:
Lord Zhengyi wrote:Spacesaver
If you want that, join the Army and go to Iraq.

I think the fashion requirements mentioned go against the uniform code or some such