OOC Information on the Cerulean Fleet

Torquil Lamond · Post by **Torquil Lamond** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:45 am

Do you mean with regards to PC Guards?

Stealth is hard to deal with right now, but when a PC casts invisibility, the Guard has been instructed to treat it like invisibility.

Stealth will be fixed in the next patch, so hopefully that won't be an issue.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:47 pm

Reminder that without HIPS a person cannot suddenly "hide" while standing directly in front of others.

Honestly, if it comes down to DMFI checks I'm inclined to say "Sorry, you're screwed" with HiPS. It's too easy to claim it's part of your build. Much as I hate True Sight revealing things that are hidden, it should probably be left alone in this case, too; it's way too easy for a guard to have TS running and nail a guy who's stealthing without realizing the only reason they saw the stealther is TS, and that's a drama bomb waiting to happen.

Torquil Lamond · Post by **Torquil Lamond** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:39 pm

True Sight can be modified as per Das1, so it doesn't outrightly grant stealth detection, only improve one's spot and listen checks.

As for the DMFI, I'm disinclined to force every guard to download and use it in order to detect HiPS as it stands now. I will be reviewing how we can deal with this situation, but hopefully the next patch will correct this issue.

blackheart · Post by **blackheart** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:31 pm

Torquil Lamond wrote:True Sight can be modified as per Das1, so it doesn't outrightly grant stealth detection, only improve one's spot and listen checks.

You would be my new hero.

The Explorer · Post by **The Explorer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:18 pm

My DMFI tool got lost in the update before last so thats a no go option for me.

Torquil Lamond · Post by **Torquil Lamond** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:11 pm

blackheart wrote:
Torquil Lamond wrote:True Sight can be modified as per Das1, so it doesn't outrightly grant stealth detection, only improve one's spot and listen checks.
You would be my new hero.

We would have to submit it to the DMs for approval, but it would be a relatively simple change to make.

Gildren · Post by **Gildren** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:48 pm

There is a hot fix for DMFI that fixes that issue. It's the 1.05 fix, and it works with the 1.06 ver of the game (1.07? who knows?)

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=37

On an old NWN1 server I used to play on, the adjustment to the True Sight spell as a +20 skill points to spot. The See Invisible spell was adjusted to a +10 skill point bonus to spot. These seemed to work rather well with the insane attribute bonus stacking ( Dex of 30+ not hard to get). Pretty much, if you had the spell up, and had spent the points on spot skill, you could see folks who got close to you.

With the NWN2 3.5 fix to the insane attribute bonus stacking removed, a +20/+10 skill point bonus might be too high. Perhaps a +15/+10 or a +10/+5? I don't think a spell should be able to automatically defeat another characters investment of 40 skill points (20 points in Hide, 20 points in MS at lv17).

Post by **Peregrinus** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:57 pm

I do have a problem to change it to Das1 true sight.

Das 1 True Sight was buggy, it was suppose to give +1 spot per caster level (max +20), last 1 rnd/lvl and see invis. In reality it gave +1 spot per 2 caster levels (max +10), lasted 1 rnd/lvl and see invis.

Not so bad, right?

Here's the problem: it was a level 6 spell for sorc/wiz, and a level 5 spell for Cleric and a lvl 7 spell for Druids. It was by far weaker than anything else they had at those levels, so bad in fact I did not even use it on my sorcerer, as See Inv. was strictly better (See Inv for 1 min/lvl, and a 2nd level spell). For Druids, who got spot and were a wisdom based caster, it was somewhat useful to give that extra bump over all the +hide/+dex gear the sneaks could get, but otherwise, it was quite worthless to anyone else. And even as that little extra bump, it was definitely not the equivalent of any spell levels 5 to 7.

Now, I wouldn't mind changing True Sight to be more in line with PnP. For reference, True Sight from the d20srd.

If it is changed at all, it shouldn't even give a bump to spot/listen in my opinion. Rather it should give:

* See Inv.
* Darkvision
* Low-Light Vision
* Last 1 Min/level
* Allow the user to see in magic darkness (if possible)

Tinuvhiell · Post by **Tinuvhiell** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:43 pm

what does "see invis" do then?

blackheart · Post by **blackheart** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:51 pm

Somebody else's solution, but seems easy enough to make it work like PnP --

1. Open

NW_S0_TrueSee.nss

2. grep on

Code: Select all

effect eSight = EffectTrueSeeing();

3. replace with

Code: Select all

	effect eSight = EffectSeeInvisible();
    eSight = EffectLinkEffects(eSight, EffectUltravision());

sirius · Post by **sirius** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:14 pm

Looks interesting.

Guardsman to Commodore is quite a promotion Torquil, you should be proud

Torquil Lamond · Post by **Torquil Lamond** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:35 am

If True Sight is altered to give Spot/Listen bonuses, I am sure the development team will be making appropriate adjustments. They're not going to arbitrarily pick a number that's going to destroy the rogue class.

As a player I caution against completely eradicating the stealth detection bonuses from True Sight. Yes, NWN2 is based on PnP, but we're not playing at a tabletop. NWN2 is a CRPG, and I believe that there should be an available spell out there, like True Sight, that assists casters in detecting stealthed characters.

I will say again that I do not like insta-detect, and would prefer a scalable system.

Post by **Peregrinus** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:35 am

Tinuvhiell wrote:what does "see invis" do then?

See Invis. simply allows you to see through invisibility spells of any level, no bonuses to spot/listen. Its a really, really, powerful level 2 spell.

Post by **Vahene** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:11 am

On the same note and as a rather related question, does blind sight work?

K

Starkwolf · Post by **Starkwolf** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:16 am

This is NWN2 Oblivious helped make it...nothing works ;p