Alignment and Lochwar

[Vahene]

People who aren't believing in a god in this world are a. heretics b. idiots.

Right. So is that a personal opinion, stated fact, or a DM saying "You can't be an athiest or agnostic in this game"?

Just out of curiosity.

K

[broncoblitz]

You can, just don't expect to have a long life.

[ChikenKannon]

Also to those people who want to do a different version of a religion. Remember. This is the OLD ages, that kind of thing is heretical and punishable by death.

[ErictheRed]

I actually think that it would be easier to be an atheist in a D&D world than in real life. I mean, if you're a level 15 wizard you can cast some pretty damn impressive magical spells. I RP'd a character once that didn't believe in gods on the basis that he just assumed that divine magic and other "supernatural" happenings were just other forms of magic. I.e., if an arcane caster figured out a way to do some amazing stuff "scientifically," then perhaps the divine caster has figured out an equally valid, but entirely different, "scientific" approach to magic.

In a world with magic all over the place, don't you think it'd be pretty easy to explain away miracles? It's pretty hard to explain away "miracles" in real life, because we haven't discovered any "magic." It's basically scientifically explainable or God did it (at least that's how many people view things). But in a world like Dasaria, you've got another way of explaining things: it was magic! I really think it'd be easier to be an atheist in Dasaria than in real life.

The big exception would be direct visitation from a God, of course. But that hasn't happened to my characters yet. And I suppose a stubborn atheist would say that a visit from a God could be explained away by saying that someone finally figured how to become a level 65 Wizard, etc. Then again, is there any difference between a level 65 Wizard and a god...??

[DM Bionic]

or a DM saying "You can't be an athiest or agnostic in this game"?

But that doesn't mean we're not free to make choices.

It's not as black and white as you thought I stated it. I just explained the possible consequences of one's actions should one decide to be an atheist or agnost. Perhaps reading the whole post helps next time.

[DM Bionic]

The big exception would be direct visitation from a God, of course. But that hasn't happened to my characters yet. And I suppose a stubborn atheist would say that a visit from a God could be explained away by saying that someone finally figured how to become a level 65 Wizard, etc. Then again, is there any difference between a level 65 Wizard and a god...??

Now why would a god be interested in showing him or herself to someone who doesn't bother to believe in them anyways? To prove their existance?

Why would they want to do that? Do you have to prove your existance? I'm not sure about you, but I know -I- exist. And so do those gods. That you don't believe in them isn't -their- problem. The consequences are for you. They aren't politicians who're running campaigns to get more souls. They're Gods. Allmighty. And always mightier then you, eventhough you might be level 65. Gods are beyond levels.

Gods are DM's and you're a puppet on their playground.

[Toledo]

I tried to stay out o this but in any religion, what does any god do but try to prove themselves??? Has any god yet IRL come back?? no.. it is all faith.


And in a world wher magic is real.. how can you have any FACTUAL evidence that he/she is that much more powerful, other than being higher level???

I mean.. levels 4 can cast spells.... produce fireballs from their hands!! If a man can spew fire from his hands... the only things the gods have to offer me is more powerful fireballs.

[kikkelipoika]

Now why would a god be interested in showing him or herself to someone who doesn't bother to believe in them anyways? To prove their existance?

Why wouldn't they? Someone has to tell them how to believe for the god to gain more followers. And if the god doesn't care about any followers then he would never have pointed out that he existed, meaning that no mortal would never have found out that he exist, which in turn leads to no worshippers.

All the gods in this campaing seem to have their own worshipers, which means that somehow the mortals know they exist; which in turn means that they've proven thir existance somehow.

[DM Bionic]

All the gods in this campaing seem to have their own worshipers, which means that somehow the mortals know they exist; which in turn means that they've proven thir existance somehow.

We don't know if God, Jahwe and Allah exist either. Yet; people believe.

To the question what the Dasarian deities have over mortals; the power to create -and- destroy life without the use of spells. The power to create and destroy worlds. Gods will never die and the name Mortals says it all. Indeed; without followers a -faith- will die. But the God wont.

I agree that a character can become Godlike. But becoming a God would be a tad more difficult, I think.

Anyways, I'm not going further into this theology debate because it'll always remain opinions against other opinions. People who actually have Faith in real life probably can explain why people believe in a better way then I can. Supposedly it's a "calling" but nobody's ever seen what they are actually being called to.

The facts are given, interpretations can vary.

Why don't we all get ingame and discuss it IC?

[Evelond Formos]

Because the Talon will whip our a**es if we do.

[ErictheRed]

For DM Bionic: I completely agree with you, I was just pointing out that it's perfectly possible in character to have the perspective that when you see "evidence" of the gods (life being created/destroyed, etc.) to chalk it up to extremely powerful, hither-to undiscovered magic. And I didn't mean to imply that any of our characters would become level 65 (or anywhere close), I just meant that if a "scientifically-minded atheist wizard" (oxymoron!) came face to face with a god, for whatever reason, then they could always just say: "That Lochwar isn't really a God, he's just a person who figured out how to unlock powerful magics that are far beyond my current comprehension." Hence, he could remain an atheist even after "seeing" a god.

Of course, I totally understand that the gods might decide to give him hell for his unbelief! I just didn't like the implication that I felt some people suggested: that to roleplay an atheist is somehow stupid or impossible in Dasaria. I don't have an atheist character here in Dasaria, but I like people to have the option to RP their characters however they see fit.

See you in game!

[ErictheRed]

Whee double post.

[TheSilverHammer]

God can grant powers to their followers, gods are above mortal magic, and gods can do things mortal magics simply can not do.

How many arcane resurrection spells are there?

Why can't wizards figure out how to cast spells in full plate? After all, if gods are just 'powerful mortals' how can they, let alone their followers, cast spells in full plate? Divine magic obviously works differently then arcane magic. Why wouldn't some wizard with a lot of time on his hands try and research divine magic so he could use armor while casting spells? You would have to think somewhere, some wizards have tried to figure it out.

It should be clear to anyone living in the D&D world that god's play by different rules. They are not mearly really powerful mortals. A 100th level wizard can't do things a level 10 cleric can do, let alone even the most minor of deities.

In the D&D world, an atheist is an idiot.

[DM Bionic]

In the D&D world, an atheist is an idiot.

Idiots are quite common, though.

[LONOmakesWAR]

this thread makes me want to put out a cigar in my eye