US Politics

Post by **Vahene** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:03 am

The subject heading is your warning...

...but I have a very dumb question. I hope someone will seriously
answer, but why does Iowa have a caucus instead of a primary? And
why is Iowa seen as the 'everything' state? The most important
question... what the heck is a caucus?

Ohio has a primary. We go vote in a mini-election for the person we'll
hopefully get to vote for in the actual election. I don't get everyone
gathering together and voting with their neighbors. They way I
understand it, its like a football pool, right? Your numbers win, you move
on to the prize?

K, very confused in Ohio

hannahcoldkiller · Post by **hannahcoldkiller** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:33 am

the wikipedia knows

The Iowa Caucus is a big deal because it's the first primary and it sets the tone for the rest of the election. Along with South Carolina and New Hampshire, Iowa is where the candidates prove they have what it takes to win. With our horse-race mentality of our media, Iowa because of the closeness of the race is a sign of what might happen next, which they will know doubt obsess over constantly without ever really saying anything.

Post by **Vahene** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:41 am

Yeah, but how many people have won Iowa and the Presidency?

I know Bill Clinton didn't win there.

So if it ends up not matternig, why does it matter?

You know?

K

hannahcoldkiller · Post by **hannahcoldkiller** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:37 am

Cause it's on TV

check the wikipedia; I dunno about Iowa but the percentage of Presidents who win at least one of the three primaries is pretty high i think

Dm Chicken Little · Post by **Dm Chicken Little** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:27 am

Because it is the first real public test of a candidate.

So it gets the media's attention.

kikkelipoika · Post by **kikkelipoika** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:49 am

Sounds like your politics have even less to do with decision making than ours. Funny isn't it? The big election is not won by the best candidate, but by the one that can bring on the biggest show.

That's the problem with democracy: it assumes that everyone has an educated opinion while in reality a vast majority is completely ignorant on the subject and votes solely based on emotional judgement. And instead of education, most sources only offer manipulation.

We Humans really suck at building societies don't we.

But that will all be history when the great kikkelipoika rises triumphant on his throne of the world! I can already imagine what his banner will look like, picturing him with his gladius erected, symbolizing dominance and power.

oaknott · Post by **oaknott** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:59 pm

Just some thoughts on politics from much greater political thinkers than I:

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Sir Winston Churchill

“Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.” Ronald Reagan

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” Thomas Jefferson

The Explorer · Post by **The Explorer** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:44 pm

On voting day all of the educated, non media propergandized people that should be 1; voting and better yet 2; running the country are with me down the pub or drinking somewhere known someone new is taking over the rains to mess up the country more but If we are lucky might do one good thing for us... like lower taxes, Actually improve public transport or more currently important in the UK is take a O tolerance stance on immigration.

opps starting to turn into a rant so I will stop.

Blackthorn · Post by **Blackthorn** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:55 pm

Yep our system here in the U.S. needs an enema. For instance the vote that we the citizens make is a populalarity vote, the electorialic college is not by law obligated to follow it, They cast thier vote that determens to which person the points from that state goes. We have had presidents in recent history that most people know lost the popular vote to win the election. In a land for the people by the people I think we ned to come up with a better way of doing things.

angel rogue · Post by **angel rogue** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:01 am

I just received this article in my email a couple days ago. It is a few years old, but it is an accurate, if humorously written, description of how the Iowa caucuses work. According to recent reports in the news I've heard, nothing has changed in Iowa on this caucus-primaries crap in 160 years.

Sunday, Jan. 11, 2004
Like Jury Duty? You'll Love Caucuses
By Joel Stein

If you think we're going to get a democracy up and running in Iraq by midsummer, maybe you should know that it takes two hours to teach Iowans how to vote in their own caucus. And these are Iowans who have been to caucuses before.

Admittedly, the Iowa caucus is the most painstaking, complicated form of democracy to exist outside a campus women's collective. Instead of walking into a voting booth, pulling the top lever for President and randomly yanking the rest of them like you're supposed to, the caucus is a three-hour Monday-night political dorkfest reserved for the kinds of people who get psyched about jury duty. In 2000, only 61,000 Iowans showed up to vote, and it's not as if there's a lot to do in Iowa in January.

To explain how it all works, Iowa Secretary of State Chet Culver is going around the state holding practice caucuses. At his workshop last Tuesday at the library in Clive, a suburb seven miles west of Des Moines, about 50 people showed up, several of them young enough to be my parents. Most of these folks already knew how caucuses work and just wanted a refresher course. Clive needs to get itself a bowling alley.

As Culver, 37, a former history teacher, began with an hour-long PowerPoint presentation on the history of the caucus going back to 1846, a sign-language interpreter flashed signs — even though not a single person in the room was deaf. It hit me about 15 minutes into the speech that the sign-language guy must have realized no one there was deaf, but by that time it was too embarrassing to just stop. So he kept going, his bravery a further testimony to the lengths Iowans go through just to get David Broder to visit.

For the second hour, Culver had the audience stage a fake caucus. It turns out the Republican caucus is really simple. They pass around ballots, count them and go home to watch Everybody Loves Raymond while the Democrats are still reading their rules. I predict the state will eventually be 100% Republican.

When the caucus begins at 6:30 p.m. on Jan. 19, the first thing everyone in both parties will do is vote on a committee chair. Then caucusgoers will debate and vote on issues they'd like to see on the party's platform at the convention. Finally, the people at the Democratic caucus make speeches for all the Democratic candidates, including Undecided. Undecided, by the way, has taken the Democratic Iowa caucus several times, as in 1972 and 1976. If Confused were a candidate, it would win even more often.

After the speeches, everyone then votes by walking to the section of the room designated for his or her candidate. Any group with less than 15% of the attendees is considered nonviable and has to disband. Then the realignment period begins, in which everyone walks around and tries to persuade the disbanded people, and anyone else, to join them. The classic way to do that is to bribe them by making them delegates to the convention. That's like a trip to Vegas to these people.

Once all the candidates have at least 15%, a formula Culver describes as "needing a Ph.D. in math to understand" is used to determine how many delegates each candidate gets. The percentage of delegates each candidate gets is the number reported in the media. Then the media, for reasons that are unclear, pretend that has something to do with whom the country wants to be President.

To give us a taste of how exciting this can be in action, Culver had the audience vote on their favorite pets. Debra Salowitz, who gave the pro-cat speech right before the woman in the Christmas sweater gave the bird speech, combatively announced, "If you have a bird problem, cats can take care of that." This was the point when the sign-language guy finally gave up.

Next, everyone walked to corners of the room to back their favorite pets. The cat and fish people had less than 15% of the vote, thus sending everyone into the exciting realignment period. During this time, the bird supporters grabbed the cookie tray — a staple of Iowa caucus sites — and approached the Undecideds, who accused them of bribery. The Christmas-sweater woman's main tactic was to stand near the Undecideds and loudly chant "Birds! Birds! Birds!" A staunch dog supporter grabbed Culver's microphone to talk about how his dog had once been at the Governor's mansion.

Each candidate was awarded a number of delegates corresponding to the percentage of people standing in its corner. Out of the seven allotted in this fake precinct obsessed with pet hierarchy, four went to the dogs, three went to Uncommitted, and none went to the birds since so many of them got confused during realignment that they strayed from their corner. While much was learned about how caucuses work, more was learned about the intelligence of people who own birds.

The caucus seems as if it were constructed to keep away everyone but hard-core party activists and the pitifully lonely, but it can actually lead to an informed decision. And while three hours seems like a lot to give up for democracy, it's shorter than that last Lord of the Rings movie. The lack of a secret ballot does make some people nervous, but having to declare your political opinion in public probably keeps people from voting for things they should be ashamed of, such as liking cats. Plus there's something nice about getting together with your neighbors to eat cookies and talk about politics. Once every four years seems about right for that.

Zephis · Post by **Zephis** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:17 am

I really don't understand why more of the world doesn't use the system we use in ireland..

If you have 6 candidates for an election, then on your voting slip you have 6 boxes, you mark the boxes with one as your favourite and another as your secondary and so on. It can vary a little depending on the election and the number of candidates..

If your no.1 candidate doesnt get in then my vote would be passed onto no.2 and so on.
This way even if the main guy you want doesnt get in another guy you feel is suitable could get in

hannahcoldkiller · Post by **hannahcoldkiller** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:15 am

automatic run-off voting makes sense, but like the popular vote, might be too democratic for America

Dm Chicken Little · Post by **Dm Chicken Little** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:02 am

Well put it this way, "People get the government they deserve."

kikkelipoika · Post by **kikkelipoika** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:26 pm

Dm Chicken Little wrote:Well put it this way, "People get the government they deserve."

Then it's no wonder that most governments suck

superpoweredchimp · Post by **superpoweredchimp** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:37 pm

I didn't caucus.