Pick pocketing (rules clarification)

[k9burn]

I was recently a victim of a pick pocket...and while the item stolen was nothing of major value, I would like to have a DM/mod clarify the rules:

When the item was stolen I noticed in yellow text (for the sake of protecting the guilty I will use the name Bob as the thief)

Bob is trying to steal from you!
Bob has stolen a wolf pelt from you!

Does this mean that my character noticed and caught the thief redhanded? Am I allowed to retaliate at this point (either through RP or force if necessary).

What if the thief was more adept at his profession...would I not even notice these messages at all but still lose the items? I remember in NWN1 that you would see something like "Lost: Wolf Pelt" in yellow text if you were pick pocketed, even if you didn't 'catch' them in the act.

I guess I just want a clear definition of how we are supposed to react to the given text messages.

And, for the record, I rp'd it out...Troy thought he dropped the pelt and the 'Bob' picked it up, but after consideration he decided it was not worth the trouble to get it back. Must be Troy's good nature

[Starkwold]

If you want to RP it out, that's fantastic.

However, per the rules:

Pick-pocket Ruleset

1) If you are the victim of a theft, you are within the standard rights of the pvp code to kill the thief that stole from you. See the PvP Code of Honor if this action is taken, the same rules apply.

2) If the victim kills the thief, and the thief respawns then immediately continues picking pockets, the thief is in direct violation of the ruleset and subject to disiplinary action.

3) If the victim feels he cannot defeat the thief on his/her own, that victim may call on the aid of others. This DOES NOT give anyone the right to hound the thief after the thief has been killed.

This can be found on the Server Rules Forum.

If you see him steal something from you (as per the yellow text) you have full right to kill the thief. If the thief continues to pick-pocket, report it to a DM and he can expect disciplinary action.

You may enlist friends to put the thief down. Obviously if victims of theft start employing this right, the developing pick-pocketing trend will start fading away. It acts as a deterent.

Also, rogues, be advised that habitual pick-pocketing, especially of newcomers (level 1s) is borderline griefing, and will be dealt with by one of the DM's.

PS/Disclaimer: I am not a DM, only supplying the rules here.

[BeyondRedemption]

Agreed that is in the PvP code of honor that you get to kill the thief but is that also within the rules of the city if it happens inside the city limits?

[Starkwold]

I would argue that server rules > RP city rules. I could entirely be wrong on that, though.

[Budgie]

In 'Das 1' the stolen goods lost their value and could not be sold to merchants etc. I have not yet got my copy of 'Das 2' (comes out in NZ tomorrow) so I cannot yet book onto our server. Is this the case in the new game. It's as well to know as I would not roll play a theft if I could not return it at the same value as it was prior to the theft.

[-Joker-]

This type of thing is always a double-edged sword.

Some people will always want to play a thief. That's ok. People who catch a thief stealing from them want a way to retaliate or want justice. That is ok as well.

The REAL problem happens when people go to extremes in any of the cases listed above (as well as in many other cases not listed). When a person playing a thief is CONSTANTLY stealing from other players (Especially new players/level 1s). It gets WAY out of hand. This leads to people constantly going after the thief, to the point of killing her/him every time they see the thief, as well as other problems.

When these situations intensify, questions are brought to these forums. Usually it's questions about the ruleset, as k9burn has posted above. The DM team does it's VERY BEST to set rules that are equal for everyone. The problem is, some people look at those rules and try to find loopholes that they can use to continue doing what they do and the problem is never resolved. The DM team then tries to make other rules to fix the problem, and more loopholes are found....

As you can imagine it gets frustrating on both ends.

The BEST solution to ALL of this rests in the hands of the players. All you need to do, as a player, is show some restraint. You want to play a thief? Fine, but let's not rob everyone on the server blind, just because you can and you play a thief.

There will ALWAYS be griefers. Those people that play the game just to cause others grief. The DMs do their best to deal with griefers, but they cannot be around 24-7. As players in this world that's been created for us, WE have the most control over how situations like these are handled. RP, IMO, is the best way to deal with it. With griefers it's a bit more complicated, so we all try to deal with it the best we can.

To summarize this wall o' text, please, as players, show some RESTRAINT.

[BeyondRedemption]

I would argue that server rules > RP city rules. I could entirely be wrong on that, though.

Of course Falcon, I was just wondering if within the RP city rules it was legal to kill a thief. My interpretation is no because anyone could merely accuse someone else of thievery and take matters into one's own hands but I'll leave it up to you to decide.

[Trinn]

I think the OP was gettig at; if the thief had succeeded in his attempt, would I be notified?

If so, the you would be within your rights to retalliate.

The question is, do i only get notified if he fails?


Ie, If i see that ive been pickpocketed through yellow text , do I have the right to retalliate?

If he pickpockets me but I dont see a yellow message.. well, I could assume he did it without me oticing, right?



How does it actually pan out in gam? (I've never played rogue, so duno. I guess there might be at least a couple of people who do ;P )

[k9burn]

I think the OP was gettig at; if the thief had succeeded in his attempt, would I be notified?

If so, the you would be within your rights to retalliate.

The question is, do i only get notified if he fails?


Ie, If i see that ive been pickpocketed through yellow text , do I have the right to retalliate?

If he pickpockets me but I dont see a yellow message.. well, I could assume he did it without me oticing, right?



How does it actually pan out in gam? (I've never played rogue, so duno. I guess there might be at least a couple of people who do ;P )

Yes you touched my main point (but the minor points are good to discuss as well).

Basically, from the point of view of the pickpocketee (the victim), what does it look like when I catch them stealing (they fail, but steal the item), and what does it look like when i don't catch them (they succeed)

[Dragoncleric]

Well I don't tolerate Pick-Pocketing on a PC. It's a sad state that thief players do that constantly to others. When it's part of a story, that's fine. Especially on the NPC's in question.
It has no place though around other players. What's the point in playing if I can't even have an option to keep my coin and non equipped goods off my person? Why bother being a non-thief, if all the others are just going to steal my things because they can claim RP reasons for it? (balls excuse)

It's not what's done in table-top and I expect the same manners.

That being said: My character has a 0 tolerance policy, and if he notices his coin/item gone and the thief running away, out comes the Eldtrich spear. No questions asked.
I won't grief that player with more kills out of spite (although the taunts might be there), but they'd darn well better stay at least 10 feet away from then on, lol.

It's just a sore subject because D&D doesn't translate too well to this MMO crowd it's trying to cater too. How many of you see rogues in most MMO games being able to PP other players?
How many of you table-top D&D players ever steal from each other that way? Randomly? (Usually if it's done the item is returned with that understanding that comes from tight-nit players and friends.)

It's just an aggravation and it gets abused more too often then naught. Until the rules of the item becoming unsellabe (which doesn't help much of that item was your said 'latern of seeing' or something like that), or there's no player PP allowed...it's a pain in the arse.

In which case can we get some pouches/bags to purchase to put things in that are not stealable? Like a magic bag, even? Would that even help?

[ChikenKannon]

Playing as a thief I try not to pickpocket from the same person too many times. And I try not to steal from random people because they are there.

I usually try to pickpocket someone 1 time (successfully or not) and then I leave them alone. Also I try and roleplay it so it isn't just "I RUN INTO YOU I HAVE YUR GOLDZ I WIN! I RUN!!"

That being said I LOVE it when people start threatening to kill me, it adds an element of danger. If thieves don't want to risk dying to someone who wants to keep their stuff then they shouldn't pick peoples pockets so often.

[Coasty1981]

Personally since this is a living world set up and not a coop campaign I think pick pocketing has a lot of benefits too it. Let me set up a bit of an example of how pickpocketing can help in all this.

We have a character named Bob who worships Lochwar (Master of plots and retribution).

We have another charter Tim who has shamed Bob in some way and while of roughly equal skill to Bob has far better equipment so can kick Bobs butt.

So Bob being resourceful and having contacts hires a "Troubleshooter" (aka. Thief) to go into town and steal (pickpocket) Tim to get his weapons (Since you can't brandish weapons in town). If the thief gets spotted he is to lead Tim to Bob who will be waiting someplace just outside the city. If not caught the thief is to let Bob know that Tim is now weaponless and ripe for the pickings.

Either way Bob now confronts Tim who is now at the disadvantage thus allowing Bob to get his Justified Retubition.

All of this is thus in character. Also if Bob is a smart man he'd bribe a guard or bring Tim's body back along with some evidence to Tim being a Heretic or Enemy to the state thus raising Bob's relations with the local guards enabling him to dig deeper plots in the future.


The new Dasaria is not a nice place after all.

[Mon-da-oth]

You know as playing a thief I had not given pick pocketing much thought. I guess that I had decided that I either wasn't going to do it or was only going to do it in special cases ie. I see someone flashing around a large bag of coins and spending lots of them on flashy armour, weapons, etc. This wouldn't be something a wise person would do in any major city without expecting the attention of some thieves.

If you look and act poor why would a thief want to bother with you anyways.

Speaking OOC: I would hate it if I got picked but in Das I I tried to keep my character a distance away from most known or suspected theives and to be honest I don't think any ever tried. If I get caught picking I totally expect to get whacked. If I succeed and I feel the item is worth a lot and could cause some grief for the other play then I will find some way to return the item even if I need to do it OOC even if it not something my character would do.

It would be a lot of fun if we could put stuff into someones inventory. It would be a great joke to stuff somones inventory full of wolf pelts or beetle bellies.

[Vahene]

No one's really a suspected thief yet, though, I don't think. In Das1 I only used this ability for special cases, very special cases. But we've had some very well Role-Played thieves in Das1 too. (Niles and Stagger Lee come to mind immediately) I would hope most people would RP out any interaction rather than just killing a person. Probably why I didn't do it more often in Das1.. then again my rogue had a reputation to uphold. (The never being arrested reputation)

-K

[Mon-da-oth]

Myles often hung around with Stagger. I figured if anything went missing it was just payment for good company.