Are you guys concened about some of the subraces?

[lockethrowsknives]

We players are supposed to adapt to the campaign, not expect the campaign to adapt to our personal preferences.

Absolutely. In my experience, when the DMs try to cater to each and every preference of the player base, in the end it really just spoils the campaign. If these subraces don't fit into our campaign, well, that's the end of it. They just don't.

[Evelond Formos]

I change my mind.

I could care less about numbers. What I care about is campaign integrity.

Disallow Teiflings and Aasimar. They are supernatural creatures best meant for non-player character usage. Give them to the player community and suddenly the supernatural will be mundane and without rarity. Every other character will be the sons and daughters of the gods. Hell, disallow or ammend any subrace in whatever way the staff desires.

Aasimar and Teiflings have about as much to do with Dasaria as Klingons and Cylons. Sure, you see them in the Forgotten Realms. This isn't the Forgotten Realms.

If players want to play these races, there are other servers that will offer them that privledge. Dasaria will not have a shortage of players because of restrictions to race selection. If players end up leaving because they can't play a teifling, well, they aren't the sort of players we want here, anyway.

We players are supposed to adapt to the campaign, not expect the campaign to adapt to our personal preferences.

I think I just failed a will save: I completely agree with this.

EDIT- Duegar and Drow, I definitely vote for these to be locked out, they weren't meant to be a part of Dasaria in the first place. In fact, any deep subrace should be locked out.

I think applications would be good for the Planetouched, because although they are rare, I don't think they are nonexistant. Make it a tough application, though, to keep it rare.

All the other subraces, like lightfoot and strongheart, sun elf and wood elf, keep in, please. They exist in Dasaria, right?

Just my two cents.

~Evelond~

[Ludovic]

Alright, I find myself playing devil's advocate more and more which is ironic if you've met my character.

Anyway, I thought I'd pick my brain and spit it out since it's been bugging me a bit. This clearly, is in relation to the whole race/sub-race discussion.

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Grayle said in this thread. From my point of view, and I reiterate, -my- point of view, what matters is the campaign integrity exactly like Grayle said.

The staff have made it clear it would be relatively easy to lock out certain races via the use of a small hakpak a few kilobytes large. At the same time, it is up to the creators of this campaign to define what in their view are acceptable races; what would be present in the realm where Dasaria exists and how common certain races would be (say Aasimar or Drow). Have the odd NPC or two, but PCs – eh, a bit iffy.

If I wanted to play in the Forgotten Realms I could just as easily logged on to the myriad of servers set in that setting and play the official campaign.

So what about the current crop of characters? Simple. The server is in open beta, guess what beta means on every other server? That's right, it means a vault wipe once the module is no longer a beta, or in testing, if you will.

Shock and horror! Not quite. The game is brand new, and you'll not magically lose server population over night as new players will just crop up. Furthermore, those who like and enjoy the campaign will stay regardless. I know this to be true because of I've seen it happen on several occasions. You probably will lose the ”riffraff” however, which shouldn't be a great loss anyway.

Just like they have done with the pantheon, it would be relatively easy to just define what races would be acceptable in the campaign so it would maintain its integrity. Seriously, just look at the number of drow, thieflings and selected other. Sure, there are some players who genuinely have a great character in terms of depth, but most don’t. They know it, you know, I know it.

In the words of Zapp: If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate.

[Zephis]

You seem to misunderstand...
Tieflings and Asimarr are people who have a tiny drop of fiendish or holy blood in them.
For children of Demons or divine you have half-celestial and half fiend templates.

also..

Disallow Teiflings and Aasimar. They are supernatural creatures best meant for non-player character usage. Give them to the player community and suddenly the supernatural will be mundane and without rarity. Every other character will be the sons and daughters of the gods. Hell, disallow or amend any subrace in whatever way the staff desires.

I've seen atleast 3 human characters all claiming to have dragons blood.
Just because you don't like 2 races doesn't stop people from making outlandish claims.

I agree that the races over ECL +1 should be restricted or not allowed.
Especially underdark races..
No one likes drizzle clones, no one, not even drizzle clones who get upset because that other drizzle stole their idea...

I don't mind the idea of their being an XP cap, effects everyone just about evenly.

[Tinuvhiell]

Well, we had people roleplaying those racesin Dasaria 1, actually. The difference is, they had the same stats as everyone else, and were doing it purely to roleplay it.

[EvilPyrate]

Aasimar and Teiflings have about as much to do with Dasaria as Klingons and Cylons. Sure, you see them in the Forgotten Realms. This isn't the Forgotten Realms.

Sorry, Grayle, but you and I aren't going to agree on this one. Of *all* the truly new races (Drow, Duergar, Svirfneblin, Tiefling, Aasimar), Tieflings actually have plenty of justification to be running around - far more than any of the rest of them in my opinion.

Demons and other infernals are not known for being calm and docile once set loose on the land. Varana unleashed a hell of a lot of unholy powers during the war with Dasaria, demons and the like were among those things.

Tieflings have demon blood in their background. How does this happen?Demons would not have thought twice about molesting villagers during the war. Hell, it's in their nature. There is absolutely no reason that there wouldn't be any number of unfortunates who are the product of such a horrific act. It's also possible that some characters are the children or grandchildren of these individuals. Based on things that happened in Dasaria I, it makes perfect sense that there would be some Tieflings in the world. They are going to be mistrusted, made to feel very uneasy and unwelcome, and most people will generally expect that you can do whatever you want to a Tiefling because they aren't really people anyway. It's going to make for a very lonely, angry, persecuted life. It's not EOS, but it's also not like being an acceptable human, Dwarf, Elf, or 'Ling.

Personally, I never believed that the Underdark races had a place in this particular world, but it wasn't my choice. I figure since they were in Dasaria I, then they're practically grandfathered in for Das. II. That also opens the door for the other Undertrash. I'd still rather not see them, but I have no real leg to stand on since I'm advocating another subrace.

Of all of them, currently there is the least historical support for Aasimar. There isn't any campaign background that would support that the mostly human children of the Gods are walking the land.

[Grayle]

Hell, BJ, I don't mind being disagreed with at all. I respect a valid assertion. However, you are a veteran of the campaign, and your reasons for playing such a race would have validity of role-playing reasoning, etc. Your motivations would hardly be suspect, as you have already proven yourself an advocate of respecting the campaign. Hell, your whole post is based on Dasarian history, not just because Teifs are 'Cool.' I respect that so much.

Of course the Ji Lynn had Tiefs and they have been in the campaign, but as NPCs. I know of two "Teifling" characters that were in the Das I campaign. They weren't this game version's Teiflings however. They just 'looked' Teifling-y. They were also EoS. The return of that status, which I am almost 100% is imminant, will help a lot. A working DM client will help a lot as well.

My opinions are certainly not absolutism, and I'm open to others' ideas. Your idea makes much sense to me and has given me a new bit to chomp on. I don't -dislike- any of the new races, and actually earlier advocated thier usage in the second age. However, that was before I saw how commonplace the (native)extra-planar are becoming. Sub-races are becoming more common than thier parent races. I've seen more Drow than regular elves, which I admit could simply be a timing issue.

I think where we do see eye-to-eye is what matters most, and that is we both want Dasaria to be protected from influences that don't fit the campaign style.

[EvilPyrate]

Here we definitely find a common ground.

I'd love to see the majority of players as Humans with everything else as a minority. Even Dwarves and Elves should be much less prevalent than Humans. The subraces should be even more rare. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to enforce it other than the DM's locking them out of all accounts except those players who show they have the RP skills to do it properly (with great power comes great responsibility). Then we run into the perception of favoritism. So it really boils down to a catch-22 situation.

I'm definitely in favor of the XP cap for leveling the playing field, and possibly disallowing some races based on their relevance to the campaign. I just feel that Tiefling PCs in particular make plenty of sense within the confines of this campaign setting.

[Grayle]

I think it would be great if every player here was required to play a human to level 20 before being allowed to play -any- other race. If a player can't role-play a human convincingly, how could they possibly portray something less familiar?

Of course, that is me being fairly unreasonable and a bit snobbish, but it's just another option to add to the stew.

[Evelond Formos]

What if we're not human?

In all seriousness, that seems a bit unfair. To gain experience, most of the time you have to FIGHT. So that defeats the purpose, right? All the roleplayers would be left with humans.

Or at least roleplayers like me.

[Ludovic]

Don't worry about it, that's just Grayle venting a bit. We all know that wouldn't be feasible and will never happen. : )

[DarkShape]

Well, Subraces function as you said, except for ONE major difference...

Ive noticed you have set your server to Level 20. It can go higher, this is to accomodate subraces, not to let people level past 20. With a level 20 server setting, a Tiefling will only ever attain level 19 (they're +1 right?)

So keep it that way, and you'll deter uncommon subraces from showing up, who wants to play a deep gnome if you know you'lll get to level 17-16 and never higher, other than RP reasons which should be the only consideration.

[Peregrinus]

Well, Subraces function as you said, except for ONE major difference...

Ive noticed you have set your server to Level 20. It can go higher, this is to accomodate subraces, not to let people level past 20. With a level 20 server setting, a Tiefling will only ever attain level 19 (they're +1 right?)

So keep it that way, and you'll deter uncommon subraces from showing up, who wants to play a deep gnome if you know you'lll get to level 17-16 and never higher, other than RP reasons which should be the only consideration.

Because a level 18 Drow anything is exceptionally powerful. It hardly matters loosing two levels unless you're a Sorcerer, especially if you're getting SR 29, Darkvision, +2 Int and +2 Cha, plus more. A good build and those lost two levels are nothing. Same goes for Deep Gnome, in my opinion the planetouched are the least broken, but still, an Aasimar Sorc, Bard, Cleric, Paladin are all very effective, and Tiefling Rogues, Wizards, as Wyvren so blatently pointed out in another thread, are flat out some of the best combinations there are. Even sacrificing the one level, there with those, its more of a minor hinderance to players.

Then again, I'm the guy who got flamed for ranting about the over-abundance of elves on Dasaria 1, plain, normal elves, so maybe my opinion is scewed towards human favortism too.

[lankycheese]

I think hell froze over Perry, because we're agreeing again.

I may have played an elf in Das1, but by the end of my time, and after playign WoW, I am firmly over them.

[Coasty1981]

Can I have kobolds please? I wana be deaken