Roleplay and You

[Alterity]

5. Support and reward Roleplayers. Starting with people who simply remain IC as much as possible and just RP their character well, up to those people who are shining gems of involvement and get other people to flock to their groups. (I've already seen several examples of the latter sort on Dasaria, and I think the server has even more potential than what is currently being tapped.) Give them things that matter: attention and support, spiced-up quests, but also prestigious, meaningful rewards. (Not without a lot of danger involved, of course.)
DM support is a great tool to let Roleplayers paint the canvas, and rewarding them is the DM's contribution to the fuel that drives their motivations.

I have to agree with you on this one. I've always been a supporter of rewards for good roleplaying. I find, at least for myself, that earning something in conjunction with enjoyment returns the feedback that you are doing something right. Sure, getting special DM events is fun, but it isn't always easy to organize an event with our limited number of DMs, and with not just the DMs to consider, but the other players you're inviting along as well, and everyone's real life issues that can cause them to be unable to come, and thus could further delay an event. Getting something special while the DMs are away makes it worthwhile to be a faction (Beyond just having a group to rp/play with regularly). The hardest part about a faction is that it is very difficult to get anything done without a DM, as anything NPC based requires DM attention. The only interactions a faction can do is between other factions, which usually involves people trying to not antagonize the other faction as they are attempting not to have the law involved.

In the end, I think that the best way to entice roleplay in players is to reward them with more then just experience (espcially those that are already level 20). A simple thing like an enchanted sword from their god, or a magic spellbook with some special ritual that only that player or that faction may know would go along way towards encouraging people to RP in my opinion as well.

[Sorc]

5. Support and reward Roleplayers. Starting with people who simply remain IC as much as possible and just RP their character well, up to those people who are shining gems of involvement and get other people to flock to their groups. (I've already seen several examples of the latter sort on Dasaria, and I think the server has even more potential than what is currently being tapped.) Give them things that matter: attention and support, spiced-up quests, but also prestigious, meaningful rewards. (Not without a lot of danger involved, of course.)
DM support is a great tool to let Roleplayers paint the canvas, and rewarding them is the DM's contribution to the fuel that drives their motivations.

I have to agree with you on this one. I've always been a supporter of rewards for good roleplaying. I find, at least for myself, that earning something in conjunction with enjoyment returns the feedback that you are doing something right. Sure, getting special DM events is fun, but it isn't always easy to organize an event with our limited number of DMs, and with not just the DMs to consider, but the other players you're inviting along as well, and everyone's real life issues that can cause them to be unable to come, and thus could further delay an event. Getting something special while the DMs are away makes it worthwhile to be a faction (Beyond just having a group to rp/play with regularly). The hardest part about a faction is that it is very difficult to get anything done without a DM, as anything NPC based requires DM attention. The only interactions a faction can do is between other factions, which usually involves people trying to not antagonize the other faction as they are attempting not to have the law involved.

In the end, I think that the best way to entice roleplay in players is to reward them with more then just experience (espcially those that are already level 20). A simple thing like an enchanted sword from their god, or a magic spellbook with some special ritual that only that player or that faction may know would go along way towards encouraging people to RP in my opinion as well.

I agree with ll this too... And this IS effective method to keep people preserving RP IC immersion
Lets be real ... even hardcore RP characters wll may talk OoC when asked OoC, or may be forced to go OoC by not-so-RP guys....

[Twist of Cain]

5. Support and reward Roleplayers. [...]

I have to agree with you on this one. I've always been a supporter of rewards for good roleplaying. I find, at least for myself, that earning something in conjunction with enjoyment returns the feedback that you are doing something right. Sure, getting special DM events is fun, but it isn't always easy to organize an event with our limited number of DMs [...] In the end, I think that the best way to entice roleplay in players is to reward them with more then just experience [...]

Yes, I also think the last point is the most important, but relies on the others. And yes, DM events are a special kind of "support," and anything involving DM attention is imo a top tier reward. But like you say DMs aren't always around, which is where other good roleplayers, self-policing and some scripts can help out.

1. Plenty of DM-lovin'.
2. Provide a quality "canvas"
3. Establish a system of tangible rewards
4. Give Roleplayers tools
5. Support and reward Roleplayers.

Another way to look at this is checking all the points one by one and asking your opinion if/where we need improvement.

1. DMs: Do you feel the server has enough active DMs?

2. Canvas: Is the atmosphere free of OOC/meta distractions? Do factions attract people to support or join them, and do they create enough inter-faction competition or conflict?

3. Relevance: Are the rewards that DMs give roleplayers, prestige, positions and otherwise - not just in terms of "cash" value - motivating enough? Do you ever think, "wow, what Bob X got from roleplaying such and such over a period of time is really cool, *I* want that too"?

4. Scripts: Could there be more scripted tools that would help organize and carry out RP events with no DMs present?

5. Rewards: Lastly, do you feel DMs are simply rewarding good roleplayers with the various means often enough, running quests, getting new players involved as well, etc?

[superpoweredchimp]

I don't think that Dasaria needs to rely too heavily on DM interaction. When you give the notion that things can only happen with DMs around, the environment becomes like a PnP session, rather than an open roleplaying environment.

You do bring up a good point about factions. None of them seem to conflict with each other. A lot of the RP going on seems to involve conflict against Canas and such: DM-controlled factions. A lot of the fun I had back when I joined Dasaria was conflict caused by players in opposing factions. The Daybreak faction could accomplish something interesting, but it seems to have dissipated.

[Alterity]

I think if all factions were to have some special purpose beyond just their description it would help. Such as one might actually be wary of the Church of Lochwar or Etoth as they could get petitions accepted for convicted heresy and summary execution (So one wouldn't openly defy a Lochwarian and talk about how their ideals are wrong, which I've seen happen before and can be quite frustrating because it breaks immersion when IC a person would do something that stupid and be killed on the spot but OOC we can't do anything about it), or the pathfinders had special pathways through certain maps or something, something that further rewarded factions would draw people to them, and only cause the factions to administer themselves in such a way to keep people out of them that join only for those bonuses, and not at all for rping.

[Twist of Cain]

I don't think that Dasaria needs to rely too heavily on DM interaction. When you give the notion that things can only happen with DMs around, the environment becomes like a PnP session, rather than an open roleplaying environment.

Both are important, and of course, a world without players is an empty world! But still, my personal opinion is that while as much as possible should revolve around players... to make things come alive, well, DMs really make the world go round. Might help explain why I feel like that after the next point...

You do bring up a good point about factions. None of them seem to conflict with each other. A lot of the RP going on seems to involve conflict against Canas and such: DM-controlled factions. A lot of the fun I had back when I joined Dasaria was conflict caused by players in opposing factions. The Daybreak faction could accomplish something interesting, but it seems to have dissipated.

Interesting to hear something about that, since I'm still a bit in the dark regarding factions - and other things, hence the questions! But a simple example combining this and the importance of DMs, let's say they decide a foreign dignitary is visiting the city. Now the DMs grab faction leaders and give the players in the respective factions their tasks, making sure they have goals that are mutually exclusive.

Give the "government" faction players the task of protecting him and winning the person over, because his nation might establish a lucrative trade guild in the city. Give the druid faction players the task of peacefully tricking or convincing him to report back not to establish the trade guild, since said trade guild is known to slaughter rare animals whole sale for pelts. Give the local underworld faction the task of getting him alone in an area and (only then) assassinating him, if they can, for a valuable artifact he carries. Give the trader/crafters faction the task of peacefully aquiring the artifact by any means possible, since they want him alive for the trade, but the artifact is rumored to be connected to this trade guild's massive income.

Of course, at first players don't know the other factions have opposing goals, but I'm sure they'll figure it out in short order. Now, DMs control the dignitary and guards around him for a few weeks, logging him on when there are several opposing faction players as much as possible. Get a three ring circus going on around the dignitary... decide on events he'll attend, announce them and run them... an organized hunt, bard's competitions, dinners and dances with nobles, etc. Notice even the underworld can't rely on simple force, since they'll have to get him alone to fulfill their goal, so everyone is going to have to roleplay their hearts out to persuade this guy to go their way. I'm imagining this really ought to lead to some roleplayed conflict between players, if not a ton of it. When one side seems to be swaying the dignitary over, he suddenly decides to pay a visit to the opposing camp, etc... milk it for all you can.

Depending on who wins, pick a different reward. A trade guild merchant with cheaper supplies for the government faction if he survives and closes the deal while keeping the artifact... If the druids manage to get him to report back a trade guild would not be profitable, perhaps an NPC druid in their circle that casts minor buffs on characters with survival, or a blessed pool that does something neat... if the underworld gets the artifact, it could be magic keys to unlock hidden areas, which results in a secret catacomb hideout for the thugs... or for the trader/crafter types it ends up being a recipe for making a cool new sort of item... maybe a small, repeatable caravan guarding quest for their faction only... who knows? In any case, make it something other players will be jealous about and regret not having taken part if they didn't - next time they will!

I don't know... at least I think that sort of thing is awesome. I'd hope it would get lots of involvement.

[Vahene]

I would just like to comment on a few things. First, regarding permadeath - it's a seriously bad idea. If you log onto a server and immediately die and are told that your character is dead - the urge to log back onto that server has completely evaporated. And I've been playing this game long enough, that if such a thing were to happen, it would be absolutely devastating to me. Permadeath should always have consent from both parties. Although, it must be noted that you might be giving consent if you are RPing a controversial character. As an example, I often faced this possibility with my Das1 sorceress ... all ... the ... time. Mostly because she couldn't seem to keep her mouth shut.

Two, PvP is overrated. I'm a person that will play controversial characters, and as such, I expect others to confront and possibly challenge me. But I also expect a certain measure of decorum. Do not just attack a character out of the blue and expect them to react favorably with RPing. It won't happen. Ever. In fact, unless you are playing a member of the Fleet, Argentum or the Lochwar faction, there's no reason anyone should even know your name before you are introduced to them. On the other side of things, if you are RPing with one of my characters and don't warn me before you attack me - I'll never RP with you again. And I'm as serious as a heart attack.

There is nothing that I hate more than PvP - and those that know me know that I try to avoid it at all costs. A well timed, OOC whisper is a good thing. And, in conclusion, I have to say that not everything needs to be overanalyzed folks. Why are role-players not logging onto the server? It might be as simple as what I suggested earlier - lack of time. The world does not revolve around this game. Real lives take precedence. And if you find that this game is #1 in your life - you need to reevaluate your goals in life. As my favorite DM says in his tagline, "It's just a game." Stop overanalyzing everyting so much, accept it, and just move on.

K

[Evelond Formos]

I really don't think this was a discussion about the life goals of those involved, Vahene. Suggestions on how to increase RP were specifically asked for. As such, they've been given.

Yes, perhaps some roleplayers are not logging on to the server because they are busy with real life. In fact, that is almost certainly true. However, that doesn't mean there aren't other factors.

EDIT: I wasn't going to continue, but honestly, it needs to be said. Perhaps permadeath on a server completely evaporates the desire to log onto that server again for you, and perhaps you think PvP is overrated. I agree with you on the first count, and disagree on the second. One should not simply dismiss a concept because one dislikes it. It sounded sort of like you were saying "STFU" to any that think permadeath and/or PvP are potentially good ideas. I know you weren't saying that, but it set the wrong tone.

Let's continue what has been, in my opinion, a very healthy discussion for the server.

[Vahene]

I really don't think this was a discussion about the life goals of those involved, Vahene. Suggestions on how to increase RP were specifically asked for. As such, they've been given.

Perhaps you need to reexamine what I posted? I said, "The world does not revolve around this game. Real lives take precedence. And if you find that this game is #1 in your life - you need to reevaluate your goals in life." In no way was my entire post about the life goals of those involved in role-playing on this server. And I said that because the original post said this, "It's becoming apparent that roleplay on Dasaria is, unfortunately, scarce" - and for the second time, I offered my opinion that perhaps the reason roleplaying is scarce is because of real-life concerns.

Yes, perhaps some roleplayers are not logging on to the server because they are busy with real life. In fact, that is almost certainly true. However, that doesn't mean there aren't other factors.

There probably are other factors. You're right.

EDIT: I wasn't going to continue, but honestly, it needs to be said. Perhaps permadeath on a server completely evaporates the desire to log onto that server again for you, and perhaps you think PvP is overrated. I agree with you on the first count, and disagree on the second. One should not simply dismiss a concept because one dislikes it. It sounded sort of like you were saying "STFU" to any that think permadeath and/or PvP are potentially good ideas. I know you weren't saying that, but it set the wrong tone.

Let's continue what has been, in my opinion, a very healthy discussion for the server.

That's why it's called an opinion, Eve. I'm definitely entitled to one. Perhaps you took it that way, but that's not the way it was intended, and I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion on the subject.

And while we're talking about the tones of posts...

K

[Gobbylin]

EDIT: I wasn't going to continue, but honestly, it needs to be said. Perhaps permadeath on a server completely evaporates the desire to log onto that server again for you, and perhaps you think PvP is overrated. I agree with you on the first count, and disagree on the second. One should not simply dismiss a concept because one dislikes it. It sounded sort of like you were saying "STFU" to any that think permadeath and/or PvP are potentially good ideas. I know you weren't saying that, but it set the wrong tone.

I’d just like to jump in here and point out that this opinion is not just Vahene’s but is shared by at least several other people including myself. Just in this thread alone there are several voices against permadeath.

Please no. I've been on Das for years, and most of the areas are difficult unless you're a complete powergamer and/or CoDzilla. Death ain't cheap already, and DM events are worlds harder than the PvE stuff, especially when you're involved in one of the major plots of the server (Allow me to give an example, I and a group of people had to fight a dracolich and demi-lich and hordes of some of the most powerful Canites (not all at once mind you, but we were commonly dealing with epic enemies) to save the Prince. With a harsher death system in place, such epic battles would simply not be feasible). Further, PvP then becomes final and allows much to easy griefing and favors whoever launches the first strike.

I'm not a fan of PvP to begin with, and am playing a character who is pretty consistently targeted for it due to my IC position. I went towards that position because it was natural for the character; however, had that position come with the caveat that "now you can perm" I definitely would not have gone that way as I tend to invest one one major character, and losing that character would, in effect, drive me from Dasaria. ESPECIALLY if applied retroactively.

I understand ToC your desire to bring out the "epic" in conflict and or battle all together but the prospect of permadeath is harsh, especially to a player who might have very limited time as it is.

I agree that permadeath in PvP is a bad idea.

Hehe, I prefer Klingons to perma-death any day

That being said I am not against PvP, but it needs to be handled correctly. There have been times where PvP was handled excellently and everyone had a great time. Yet there are other times when PvP was handled poorly and it degenerated essentially into a mudslinging match.

Really and I’ve seen it happen in Dasaria before what we need is a plot twist. Something that will grab the attention of new and old players alike.

Some examples could be Thralls gate falling to Canas and using it as a forward base. The opening of Lendose so players can assist in the fight against Canas. Open rebellion in the streets. Something dramatic and server affecting that will draw players into it.

Once you get the players back they will RP. The key is to get them back onto the server and enjoying their time logged in. Not standing around North Cear with their thumb up their butt hoping someone will stroll by they can RP with.

[Mad Dog Reno]

...Once you get the players back they will RP. The key is to get them back ....

Hmmm i think them are not gone maybe only changed? Some have like sayed get someting in RL what get them too busy? And some "old players" have found new game to play (heard lots off playing Dragon Age just now)? And lots off new players and some "very old ones" has come around? And this can change again when time goes by? Okey we have not have lots off days when over 25 is playing game but them when this have happend so server had big difficulties to run smoothly?

[Vahene]

Really and I’ve seen it happen in Dasaria before what we need is a plot twist. Something that will grab the attention of new and old players alike.

Some examples could be Thralls gate falling to Canas and using it as a forward base. The opening of Lendose so players can assist in the fight against Canas. Open rebellion in the streets. Something dramatic and server affecting that will draw players into it.

I agree with you. I'd love to see some sort of plot twist [and, personally, I'd love it if Lendose were opened up - it would be fantastic as a member of Argentum to be able to get there without Wired's assistance]. I think Thrall's falling into Cananite hands is a fantastic idea. Monsters could be littered around - warning signs could be put up, to keep the lower levels away - NPC's could be impaled on spears. Maybe not something as strong as Zumen's dragons, but Kor would do, or undead if you wanted to allow lower levels to get there, might definitely be an option.

Of course, I also have personal fantasies about Marcus getting murdered, Canas taking the throne and the Dasarian province rebelling up again and making Nelina queen once more ... [consider this my plot twist suggestion!] this time with Princeps as the heir and commander of the Dasarian troops. The module is called Dasaria, after all. >:)

But yeah, I'd love to see some sort of plot twist - and I'd love to have somewhere to attack Cananites, undead, whatevers that are serving/loyal to Canas.

K

[Evelond Formos]

I really don't think this was a discussion about the life goals of those involved, Vahene. Suggestions on how to increase RP were specifically asked for. As such, they've been given.

Perhaps you need to reexamine what I posted? I said, "The world does not revolve around this game. Real lives take precedence. And if you find that this game is #1 in your life - you need to reevaluate your goals in life." In no way was my entire post about the life goals of those involved in role-playing on this server. And I said that because the original post said this, "It's becoming apparent that roleplay on Dasaria is, unfortunately, scarce" - and for the second time, I offered my opinion that perhaps the reason roleplaying is scarce is because of real-life concerns.

I know that wasn't the entirety of your post. The point was that part of your post was, frankly, offensive, and not necessary at all. I was trying to say that in as polite a way as is possible for me. I apologize, since it seems not to have come off that way.

EDIT: I wasn't going to continue, but honestly, it needs to be said. Perhaps permadeath on a server completely evaporates the desire to log onto that server again for you, and perhaps you think PvP is overrated. I agree with you on the first count, and disagree on the second. One should not simply dismiss a concept because one dislikes it. It sounded sort of like you were saying "STFU" to any that think permadeath and/or PvP are potentially good ideas. I know you weren't saying that, but it set the wrong tone.

Let's continue what has been, in my opinion, a very healthy discussion for the server.

That's why it's called an opinion, Eve. I'm definitely entitled to one. Perhaps you took it that way, but that's not the way it was intended, and I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion on the subject.

And while we're talking about the tones of posts...

K

Yes, you are entitled to one. However, the way you worded it sounded very hostile to any who might disagree with you. I'm not going to pick apart your post to show examples because that's not necessary; neither of us will benefit.

I’d just like to jump in here and point out that this opinion is not just Vahene’s but is shared by at least several other people including myself. Just in this thread alone there are several voices against permadeath.

I did not say there weren't. I said that the way her post was written seemed to rudely dismiss any who would disagree with her (even if that was not intended, that's the way it read to some). You'll notice that I said in that paragraph I am against permadeath, as well. I think it is a bad idea. However, my view on any matter can be changed if there is reason in another view.

I agree that a plot twist might be very good for the server. I would love to see that. However, I think that even before that, we simply need to take initiative. Let's log in and stay logged in, even if there are no roleplayers logged in. (Indeed, there may be some that you simply don't know of, or who are just grasping the concept!) Let's RP for the sake of RPing, and let's create our own personal quests and storylines. The DMs can make all the twists in the world to the plot, and that would be great, but that can only be a supplement to what we do, amongst ourselves.

[JaeEleutheria]

In the future, if someone is offended by something another person says, take it to a private forum. If you do it out in public, the thread can easily derail and go off its initial purpose. Just a suggestion.

I feel it is difficult to take initiative and just sign in to RP and there is no RP to be had. If your characters are involved in things that are big that require DMs they can easily get disheartened when nothing happens. This is just a feeling I get. Then again I have a tendency to dwell on the negative and have been having my own personal issues compound with some frustrations I've had in games. I only speak for myself.

[Twist of Cain]

IFirst, regarding permadeath - it's a seriously bad idea. If you log onto a server and immediately die and are told that your character is dead

Well obviously that would be a bad idea - if it worked that way. Shame on you for using a straw man argument. For the sake of this thread, why don't we take any discussion about permdeath here, since it seems the discussion keeps going on.



Now, back to roleplaying - it seems a recurring theme here is "I log on and can't find anyone to roleplay with/no DMs are there to support my faction's plot, so I don't stay on long." There might be a number of ways to help that, but it depends on the reason you can't find roleplayers.

1. There are simply not enough people online. Easy to figure out, at least. Maybe we could advertise? Put reviews on different NWN2 sites?

2. There are roleplayers online, but they are spread out who knows where, and it's a hassle to send tells to 20 different people to try and figure out would like to do what and where. This issue could possibly be helped with scripted tools like (yes I will say it again ) a magical announcement system and/or as someone else suggested, a scrying system. However, the latter I feel could be replaced by sending them a tell if you want to meet a particular person. Another option mght be structuring your roleplaying sessions with announcements on the forums, so people know ahead of time, though this does not lend itself to impromptu play.

3. The people who are online basically aren't roleplayers, thus there is no point in staying online to roleplay with others. This is probably more complicated than for instance the server simply lacking players, and goes back to the whole discussion of how to structure a server to welcome and encourage good roleplaying in general. One simple answer, though, might be to try to creatively involve whoever you see around you! Also, don't always look for your little clique to roleplay with. Especially try to find ways to involve new players! (And just for the record, I've seen some great examples of that already.)

4. I'm pursuing a plot which simply can't be furthered without a DM. Maybe talk to a DM about this and/or try to figure out alternative things you can do with players and without a DM that could help support your plot. Alternatively, try to work out time-frames when you can be online with a DM at the same time, or try to come up with a side-plot for your character, perhaps one that somehow supports your main one.