Temple prostitution

[Hedvan Arumdal]

... I know, I know. Loaded topic.

Before I get stoned, though, I do actually have a question in that regard. Seeing as the pantheon is based on Assyrian mythology, and there's no clear mentioning of this anywhere I checked (which, admittedly, was not a very extensive check), just wanted to get some information.

Does the worship of Teshalia (Ishtar) also include sexual worship as perceived on the island/continent (pre-Empire and current)? I understand that there can always be offshot religious branches with varying customs (particularly if they come from a distant place), but what is the official dogma within the game world?

I understand that,as players, we are working within establishes societal norms, as well as the server embracing all-age player population, so just to make it clear this is not meant to be used for any explicit or illicit behavior. While I did create a character based around the idea (actually, originally did that back in Das1), I'm not even sure if he'll grown on me enough to put substantial time into his development - which basically makes this inquiry more of a theoretical than practical one.

Additionally, I also realize that the pantheon of Dasaria is merely based on rather than identical with its real-world counterpart. However, given that Teshalia -is- described with pretty much identical attributes as Assyrian Ishtar (well, parts of them, anyway), it makes me wonder if there is any specific reason for setting that aspect of her worship aside.

I think my other major concern is that I might inadvertently conflict with some established part of Dasarian lore if I do decide to develop the character (particularly detailing the background concept I have).

It is neither my intention nor design to do so, hence the clarification request.

(As an upside, this already resulted in a really interesting dinner time conversation.)

[Peregrinus]

I'm gonna go out on a (short) limb here and say that, given what is in the Temple of Teshalia in game and other lore surrounding her, yes, there probably is something like what you're talking about going on.

However, it's probably not something talk about in polite company, and is probably overall frowned upon by other temples. It's also not something you should expect to see displayed blatantly in game or put explicitly out there.

It should also be noted that Temple Prostitution was not exactly like what we see today. It was treated as a form of worship/offering to the Temple, and it is meant to be more sacred (just because its sacred doesn't mean it can't be fun though), and so an appropriate attitude should be taken with it.

That said, I'm hardly the final say on the matter, just my two cents.

[Kell]

It -is- an all ages server, but if you can roleplay that without delivering Jehannum complaints for parents, I don't see what the issue is.

[Hedvan Arumdal]

However, it's probably not something talk about in polite company, and is probably overall frowned upon by other temples. It's also not something you should expect to see displayed blatantly in game or put explicitly out there.

This is actually what I've been wondering about. This very well sums up what I believe is the perception of the players, but there does not seem to be a justification of that attitude as far as the game-world is concerned. Do note that our societal approach toward the subject does rely heavily on the influence of Christianity which cemented monogamy and exclusive partnership within Western societies (at least in theory).

Even late Romans were predominantly concerned about potential status loss of a man whose wife (or even concubine) would stray into another's bed.

Especially given the following:

It should also be noted that Temple Prostitution was not exactly like what we see today. It was treated as a form of worship/offering to the Temple, and it is meant to be more sacred (just because its sacred doesn't mean it can't be fun though), and so an appropriate attitude should be taken with it.

Truth is we don't even know -how- exactly it operated. Given cultural tendencies toward caste-society at the time, I would wager that the common plebe would certainly have little chance in visiting the high priestess... or probably any higher-caste woman, for that matter.

But I was more interested in the cultural perception of the practice than its technical details.

Why would a society frown upon sacred practices of one of its polytheistic deities as long as they are performed within the established social rules? And what those rules would be, since they certainly would differ from what we mostly take for granted (to a degree) in -our- daily lives because of our own, divergent, cultural legacy.

That said, I'm hardly the final say on the matter, just my two cents.

I appreciate the comment. I wanted to get a clear feel for how this is seen by the in-game characters, and you certainly helped me get a bit closer (even though, as usual, it only created further questions).

It -is- an all ages server, but if you can roleplay that without delivering Jehannum complaints for parents, I don't see what the issue is.

I am certainly taking this under consideration, but I also do not want to disrupt the years of efforts of other players to create a cohesive alternative society.

Also, to get a heads-up if there are any actual moral objections to toying around with this concept from any of the players.

[Wired]

YMMV. I do occasionally get, and handle complaints about lewd and/or creepy behavior. Never from a parent.

Dasaria is aimed at mature players of all ages.

[Hedvan Arumdal]

Excuse the insistent repetition, but I want to make this absolutely clear - I see this as a question of character background validity and convergence with established lore rather then an excuse to around "OMG can I haz teh cyb3r53x0r!!11!?"

[Wired]

I don't think that's what my post was meant to imply, I was simply agreeing with Kells' point that properly/artfully handled, it's not going to threaten or annoy anybody.

There are a lot of mature themes in the gameworld already, from slavery to necromancy. Sexually explicit and/or obscene language, as well as l33t speak, however, have always been against the server rules; not only because it's an all-ages server.

But your-mileage-may-vary, there are occasionally things that happen that lead to complaints.

[Hedvan Arumdal]

Didn't mean to imply that you implied...

Er, I'll just leave it be XD

Thanks for the responses, by the way. They help.

[baby1111007]

The use of tells works wonders. Often you can tell if a player is getting uncomfortable...should you chose to play this character...you can always place a disclaimer in the description asking people to send you a tell if they are uncomfortable or creeped out by the guy so that you know who may have issues with the fella and avoid them. We are all mature enough folks. Some have a higher tolerance for things than others...but if you put out there that you are not looking to be offensive, people may be less likely to have complaints.

[Peregrinus]

However, it's probably not something talk about in polite company, and is probably overall frowned upon by other temples. It's also not something you should expect to see displayed blatantly in game or put explicitly out there.

This is actually what I've been wondering about. This very well sums up what I believe is the perception of the players, but there does not seem to be a justification of that attitude as far as the game-world is concerned. Do note that our societal approach toward the subject does rely heavily on the influence of Christianity which cemented monogamy and exclusive partnership within Western societies (at least in theory).

Even late Romans were predominantly concerned about potential status loss of a man whose wife (or even concubine) would stray into another's bed.

I am the first to jump at folks for importing a Judeo-Christian image of religion and understanding of the gods here, but there's a few reason I thyink it frowned upon in polite society.

1. Outside of the Teshalians, such activities are unlikely in the other temples, as there is no focus on those aspects.
2. Both Dasarian and Varanite culture are heavily influenced by the worship of Lochwar, Etoth and Tharon, all are lawful deities. While Teshalia is a recognized and popular deity, she, and her practices, are inherently Chaotic, which are the antithesis of these gods.
3. The other popular commoner deities have trapping that would tend to frown on it. Ineania is called the "Maiden of Sweet Water", and is the primary goddess of water that farmers and brewers are concerned with. So again, there's a cultural mismatch there. Ioasia is another popular goddess, due to her controlling nature, she's probably neutral to the whole affair.
4. The Dasarian gods of Tyrak I expect would frown upon it. As the Lawful Good god of purity and fire, after all, and his Paladins are noted for probably being the most "stick up the ***" type of Paladin.

I should also note, server IC culture has followed a monogamous model for both Dasaria and Varana. While you can make an argument that it might not be so, for the last decade (covering both Dasaria 1 and Dasaria 2) that has been the accepted culture by both DMs and Players. It's a little late in the game to change it now. While it might seem to you there is little IC reason for it, given its broad consensus in the player base, I would suggest it is likely a broad teaching of the religions. It's just never been explicitly laid out before, due to it being something that is in the forefront of folks minds.

As to why it would be frowned upon, in general, while polytheist, some of the faiths are more dominate than others. In Varana, the Church of Lochwar is the biggest and most influential, and they marginalized the practices of other faiths quite publicly because they believe their ways are the "most right". I once had a Lochwarite basically accuse me of heresy for talking about "mercy and redemption" as a followers of Ineania (aforementioned neutral good god of water, protection and good magics) until it was pointed out to him that Ineania's teachings weren't outlawed. Dasaria on the other hand, had all but dropped Ishtar's aspect of goddess of love, and cleaved to her as a goddess of battles, and because of that I suspect they were a bit more prudish in her worship than the Varanites, who focused on Teshalia as the goddess of love and passion.

In short, the dominate faiths teach control and self denial, to give into passion, even in the worship of another god, is still giving into passion. As I said, it is something that probably happens, but it isn't something that you talk publicly about or that is publicly solicited.

Of course, this is the same temple that sends adventurers out to pick Poppies for making opium, so who knows.

[Kell]

I agree with Pere, overall, but what he says doesn't quite account for what happens behind closed doors. In a society as this, there would be plenty of rules to go about, how to keep appearances up -but- as we've seen throughout history and we're currently still seeing in the UK (face it guys, it's true) is that those who hold up appearances highest, might care least about what goes on behind those doors.

All big organizations have their nasty, little secrets. Restraint makes drives most people to do things they'd previously perhaps never thought about. Teshalia might just be so popular, because she fills a desire that's quite universal, however not quite accepted publicly. To understand how society works helps to keep secrets, and to keep secrets is to not loose face. In a way, it feels a -lot- like a dark elf society to me, heheh.

[Hedvan Arumdal]

Thank you both. This was precisely the kind of information I needed.

[Althalus]

Four words would have answered all of this:

Does the worship of Teshalia (Ishtar) also include sexual worship...

BOW CHICKA BOW WOW.

You Mardukian Paladins can continue, blissfully unaware ow..

[Rheia Althia]

Four words would have answered all of this:

Does the worship of Teshalia (Ishtar) also include sexual worship...

BOW CHICKA BOW WOW.

You Mardukian Paladins can continue, blissfully unaware..

Blissfully unaware indeed...

[Hedvan Arumdal]

As an aside, found this gem:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17303343/Pros ... Courtesans

... and another:

http://www.academia.edu/2360254/Temple_ ... _Revisited