XP cap is in place for ECL races

[Wyvern]

The XP cap for ECL races has been set to 190,000. This means that once a character hits this figure, they will not be able to advance. The following races are affected thus:

Aasimar, ECL +1 - maximum level = 19.
Tiefling, ECL +1 - maximum level = 19.
Drow, ECL +2 - maximum level = 18
Duergar, ECL +2 - maximum level = 18
Svirfneblin, ECL +3 - maximum level = 17

All other races are unaffected by this change and will be able to reach level 20.

[coruscadragon]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

*ahem*

ok.

[The Explorer]

Cool can you put humans +2 so top end is 22?

[Bobzim]

Wyvern,

For the benefit of those among us who don't understand this change, can you explain the basis for it or link to a previous post that explains it?

I realize that certain races have some built in benefits and have paid for those by leveling more slowly than other races. But to have a level cap means that any plans one had for multi-classing are now completely messed up.

In other words, we would have made entirely different choices if we knew that there would be a level cap. Now we will not be able to complete the character the way we intended because we cannot reach level 20.

I only have one character that will be affected by this, but I would like to ask if it will be possible to have an XP reset so that I can level him the way I would have if I had known about the level cap in the first place.

The character in question is my snirv Druid "Dawg Askyrekkin".

[Wyvern]

The ECL adjustment means that you will still have an effective level of 20 as a Svirf, not 17. That is exactly what an ECL of +3 defines. To allow a Svirf to get to 20th, is an effective character level of 23, a level which standard races cannot reach.

This has been debated at great length. The public thread reached 29 pages in the general forum. Click here for the link.

The server is still currently in beta, one of the reasons being that these sorts of changes can be made before the campaign begins in earnest. It has been posted numerous times that this was under discussion, and possible changes were forthcoming so the xp cap should come as no surprise.

No decision has been made on whether relevelling will be allowed for ECLs affected. The server does have a delevel but no relevel policy however I do not currently know if that will be enforced for characters directly affected by this change.

[Wumpus Slayer]

As someone who's primary (so far) character is a deep gnome, I just want to go on record with a few comments:

1) I applaud the DMs for doing something to maintain balance.

2) I was surprised by the announcement, because the public discussion seems to have petered out over a month ago.

3) I'm now thinking hard about what to do with the 2 levels I still have to grow my character's game mechanic abilities, and contemplating asking for a one-level drop back to pursue a slightly more focused path. (That's not an official request, yet.)

4) Regardless of what happens, I'm not considering abandoning the little guy. I enjoy the role-playing he's already become a part of and can't really complain about his abilities as is.

5) I recognize that this is a long-term PW, so I'm sure I will have lots of opportunity to explore other character possibilities. Who knows, maybe the characters we all play now will be completely akward once the official campaign is revealed... (i.e. who knew that the primary threat to the empire was McDonald's, and we'll all need the craft burgers skill.)

6) The ECL cap does seem to affect some character classes more than others, especially casters and monks.

7) I'm hoping that in the future there will be expansion packs for NWN2 that will allow everyone to reach ever higher levels while we try out cool new feats, skills, spells, classes, races, and (please, please) more face options. That's how it worked with NWN1, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect in another year or two. The only real question is whether or not Dasaria 2 will make use of it.

8) Please make sure that ECL characters don't get shut out of high-level quests or the ability to make/use items based on lower class levels (i.e. spending the night at the Drag On Inn, making the Sword of a Thousand Truths lvl req 18, etc.)

9) Sooner or later, we're all going to max out the level on our primary characters. Does that mean it's time to retire that character and start a new one? I hope not. We play to have fun, not to see who's got the biggest character sheet. I've played another MMORPG where players could effectively max out the levels on a character in as little as a month. What mattered is that they had fun role-playing and used those characters for years.

[typoking]

I normally just read and don't post but I have to say this seems pretty harsh. I understand that there needs to be balance but this swings things too much the other way.

This is a quick and easy way to fix the races but I think there are better ways to do it that is fair and balanced. I know some one is going to tell me that it is easy to say that there is a better to do it then to actually come up with the solution. Well here is what I would do if I had to come up with something real quick. I would look at what makes the more powerful races more powerful.

Example : Drow and Deep gnome(Svirfneblin). The thing that makes these races more powerful is magic resist for drow, magic resist and extra ac for deep gnomes. You take these thing away and they are balanced with other races without messing up builds. I should say though I am not a builder so maybe this is impossible to do.

Anyways I hope I did not come off as being overly critical. I find this to be a good PW server that is fun play on. Just my 2 cents.

[Wyvern]

We are already discussing some unique options to "Dasariafy" the ECLs. It will just be some time before they are fully implemented.

[Melthavion]

Wumpus, that's a well thought out post and well stated. Definitely gives us all something to think about. As for taking away ECL abilities to balance, you can make a normal elf or gnome with dark skin now, and call it whatever you want, and not be hampered by ECL restrictions. The bonuses are the reason people use the ECL races. And its the reason they are seen as unbalanced the way they are. I don't see how this would solve anything that couldn't be done by removing them and just using dark skinned normal gnomes and elves (not that I'm saying I'm in favor of that). And to second Wyv's post, I'd love to see some Dasaria specific race "enhancements" and even PrC's in the future. Time will tell....

[Gildren]

ooc -

And to second Wyv's post, I'd love to see some Dasaria specific race "enhancements" and even PrC's in the future. Time will tell....

Hear Hear! Then again, I don't mind downloading haks at all =)

[Vahene]

9) Sooner or later, we're all going to max out the level on our primary characters. Does that mean it's time to retire that character and start a new one? I hope not. We play to have fun, not to see who's got the biggest character sheet. I've played another MMORPG where players could effectively max out the levels on a character in as little as a month. What mattered is that they had fun role-playing and used those characters for years.

I just wanted to mention, as a vet of Das1, that the answer to your question here is no, when you max out your level, you don't have to retire your character. Believe me, there is plenty to do at all levels and ages, and the DM's are pretty good about making sure everyone can be involved, even if its just protecting a merchant during an invasion inside a building, or whatnot..

And you have a point, a very good one. We play to have fun.

Lately, my characters have all been pretty lonely when I am in a group of people and that group goes to hunt trolls, and at level 6, I can't go, because I'm too young. No one else my characters level is around, so I'm just stuck. If you have fun, then its fun, if not, then you're not.

K

[Jehannum]

It should also be noted that it is a switch that can be turned on and off. If a better and more reasonable solution is reached, its a 30 second change to remove the cap.

We could not however apply the cap once characters had passed the level point. This is a short-medium term solution to prevent a long term and irreversible problem.

We make no mystery of our creative notion that this is a human-centric campaign and I believe this reflects that.

[Grayle]

I applaud the decision as being sensible and fair.

I also am glad to see the staff make a choice in the name of campaign integrity, knowing that they can't possibly please everyone all the time. Knowing that the decision can be reversed if it is found to be too restrictive only justifies the logic.

[Elrith]

I applaud the decision as being sensible and fair.

I also am glad to see the staff make a choice in the name of campaign integrity, knowing that they can't possibly please everyone all the time. Knowing that the decision can be reversed if it is found to be too restrictive only justifies the logic.

As a Drow player...

I agree! (Shocking yes, I know).

For certain improvements to the system, would it be possible to put in Paragon Levels as an alternative at some point?

Example: A race loses all of their spells/special abilities, keeps any disadvantages they have, and starts out with a level adjustment of +0. After taking levels in [Insert Race Here] which count against the 20 limit cap they get those special abilities back.

So a +3 ECL race would have three racial levels available to them that slowly gives back the abilities which were taken away.

Or you could have all the players ruthlessly hunt me down for suggesting such a thing.

[Redleafe]

I applaud the decision as being sensible and fair.

I also am glad to see the staff make a choice in the name of campaign integrity, knowing that they can't possibly please everyone all the time. Knowing that the decision can be reversed if it is found to be too restrictive only justifies the logic.

So well said.


Integrity is the key word there.