Renamed: Crafting and Spells Regaining

[Randomyze]

About the ability to not regain spells for around 15 minutes (My crafter is level 20) when trying to figure out new recipes when it comes to crafting. The only reason people were ever able to do it before so effectivly was because you could log off and regain your spells, now is not the case though.

Even with metamagic feats you can on average you only get around 15 spells in per rest for experimentation. With a character at level 20 and around 15 minutes per rest... You get the idea...

I suggested an idea for a static item that would be in a crafters area that you could click on and regain your spells for a price. This I believe got shot down however, what I want to know is how could this possibly be a bad idea and how could it ever be exploited?

Edit: Thread's title renamed for clarity.

[ChikenKannon]

About the ability to not regain spells for around 15 minutes (My crafter is level 20) when trying to figure out new recipes when it comes to crafting. The only reason people were ever able to do it before so effectivly was because you could log off and regain your spells, now is not the case though.

Even with metamagic feats you can on average you only get around 15 spells in per rest for experimentation. With a character at level 20 and around 15 minutes per rest... You get the idea...

I suggested an idea for a static item that would be in a crafters area that you could click on and regain your spells for a price. This I believe got shot down however, what I want to know is how could this possibly be a bad idea and how could it ever be exploited?

I say Nay. I don't see the need to fast track the crafting process. The exploit of being able to regain your spells (lets just pretend you didn't actually do that) by logging off and on was just that - an exploit. The "fix" you're asking for removes the need for player interaction and opens up the door to magic users skirting the biggest weakness they have currently - downtime and the inability to change/recharge spells on a dime.

Not to mention the fact that it makes no sense. You're buying hours of rest? I don't understand how that works. Lastly, Couldn't you just pay another wizard/magic user to help you?

[Ron]

I have one of the first crafters on the server and I never used that method. The wait between casting was useful for checking my chart and just stepping away from the computer.

[Evelond Formos]

The "fix" you're asking for removes the need for player interaction and opens up the door to magic users skirting the biggest weakness they have currently - downtime and the inability to change/recharge spells on a dime.

Invalid argument. These weaknesses are supposed to be combat weaknesses, as that's what the game is built around. And there is one magic-using class that can cast an unlimited amount of times per day--that gives them a distinct advantage in crafting that, honestly, shouldn't be quite so great.

I know I'm probably alone here but I don't see the point of having a rest timer unless you're in a dungeon anyway. This isn't hardcore DnD--it's a CRPG, meant for quick-paced fun... if we wanted to get strict with rules we'd all just play PnP. I've always been of the opinion that having fun is a priority in Dasaria. Magic users being forced to take fifteen minute breaks wherever they are is not fun.

But yeah... say you're in an area with a magician's workbench and a bed both near eachother. You should be able to lay on the bed to reset your spells. The NWN2 crafting system wasn't designed with a rest timer in mind, anyway.

[Atharin]

Nah.


edit:

Invalid argument. These weaknesses are supposed to be combat weaknesses, as that's what the game is built around. And there is one magic-using class that can cast an unlimited amount of times per day--that gives them a distinct advantage in crafting that, honestly, shouldn't be quite so great.

It's not invalid at all. The weakness is as class-conceptual as it is game-tactical. Vancian magic is very much a part of the mage's essence of being, as opposed to, say, the warlocks'.

If all design decisions were made based on "Is it combat-related?" then you're drifting further away from the concept of a roleplaying server. I don't know, I think there's a trace of romance in a wizard who toils days and nights to find the correct formula and finally yell 'Eureka!'. Take the issue lightly, try to develop some roleplay out of it -- what are mage apprentices for, after all?

[Randomyze]

No I didn't use the exploit because I wasn't crafting back then, although I know a number of people who are not playing anymore who did.

Like Eve said, this is a CRPG not hardcore PnP. Its like trying to argue what works between books and film, they are completely different mediums and should be treated as such. The OC has books so there is no need to sit down and toil for days at a time to figure stuff out.

And as for having someone else sit down and help you. This doesn't make sense, when trying to figure out new recipes you go through a lot more spells then just 30 (15 each) you are usually going through hundreds. That and because so many crafters are tight knit about their recipes (and there are so few of us at the same area) it is incredibly hard to find someone to join you in attempting new things.

What I'm trying to say to the naysayers here is have you actually attempted to craft with a level 20 wizard? Your arguments
seem valid but only in theory, reality is very different.

[ChikenKannon]

And as for having someone else sit down and help you. This doesn't make sense, when trying to figure out new recipes you go through a lot more spells then just 30 (15 each) you are usually going through hundreds. That and because so many crafters are tight knit about their recipes (and there are so few of us at the same area) it is incredibly hard to find someone to join you in attempting new things.

What I'm trying to say to the naysayers here is have you actually attempted to craft with a level 20 wizard? Your arguments
seem valid but only in theory, reality is very different.

Get apprentices, make it worth peoples while, roleplay with other crafters. OR use the system that already works, make a wand for each of the spells then you get that many charges for that spell. Get 2 wizards, get 3, roleplay, recruit people to help you.

I say nay because like I said, I don't like the idea of making people rely even less on other people for the sake of ease.

[Bobzim]

Wands work for crafting research but are prohibitively expensive to produce. I agree that working together will be a good chance for role play. Two or three crafters, working together, will reduce the wait time in between. There will, however, be substantial "downtime" while all are waiting for their spells to recharge.

I also think a bed or some such in Risa's shop would be appropriate for crafting research as the amount of trial and error is extensive (i.e., dozens of hours) and expecting crafters to dramatically increase the time investment for learning recipes (i.e., due to spell recharge waits) is unreasonable. Also, a few crafters already know most of the recipes and as such hold an unfair advantage over those who are only just now starting, since they did not have to wait for spell recharge during research.

If players want to have crafters available to create items, then it would be beneficial to have some means for recharging spells more quickly (not necessarily instant, but less wait time) and a fee for such would be appropriate.

That's my 2 crown opinion on the matter.

[Remy Overhead]

I voted No.

Not to be difficult nor to make the game harder but for a more logical and practical reason.

Firstly, how would you suppose that as being a spell caster you can all of a sudden cast spell after spell after spell when you normally could not? Even at a cost of money and using said "mystical device" why would they be so common place to be put in every crafting location? and if they are then where is my little magical doohickey for when i adventure!?

Secondly, the economy as is does not need any more money sinks. You do realize that for those who enjoy crafting and take it up as practically their characters sole role in dasaria, more costs would just up the prices of the enchantments. Perhaps not the biggest problem for some but it does not only affect the people who are rolling in gold coins.



I honestly believe that the time spent building, creating, implementing and testing such an addition to the crafting system at this time would be a waste of time and should be low on the list of things to be developed. I believe that adding more recipes such as recipes to upgrading certain crafting components, crafting quests, lower grade recipes of currently high grade enchantments, and a more time/resource gathering guarantee (IE mining nodes which yield ore which can be smelted, more dropped distillable items for components, etc) for certain components would be a better use of the developers time. After all.. really.. is 15 minutes per try that long for a profession that ultimately affects the game world to a great degree? I don't think so.

[Bobzim]

I definitely agree with you re: developer's time. And just for the record, my crafter is one of those who already know most of the recipes (i.e., being leader of the crafting guild). We spent dozens of hours learning the recipes (i.e., without the current spell recharging) so I can only imagine how dispiriting it will be for those just starting out.

Still, I agree that if it would be hard to implement then the developer's time would be far better spent on new areas, new recipes, new methods for improving crafting regeants (e.g., alchemy for "improving" elemental regeants and/or essences).

However, I disagree with the RP issue of what a bed for recharging represents. It is essentially just a meta-form of resting. As for what "resting" means, I think it's plain and logical. In fact, the only reason the developers decided to limit resting is to remove the unreasonable advantage of magic-using classes when they were able to rest anyplace and anytime.

Anyway, good luck to those struggling with the crafting system. I doubt that I will have the time to run the < OD > any more as it took up too much of my "play" time and I would rather focus on other characters atm. However, at some point I may take on an apprentice and/or join with another established crafter in a business.