Do touch spells have sneak attack here?

[FolcoTook]

I've done some browsing and searching (all hail Google), but haven't been able to find a definite answer on this, just a thread where it was a suggested change to the spell scripting. Not a big deal either way, just curious as part of some character planning.

Thanks,
FT

[Elrith]

I don't believe they do. I wish they did. *wink wink*.

[FolcoTook]

That's what I thought. Us poor rogue/<arcane caster>s. No sneak damage from a ray of frost. *winks back*

[Wired]

It's something that's missing from NWN2, yes. I don't think it's a bug, however, I believe it just wasn't designed in.

[Shorn]

There is a hakpack that fixes many classes, warlock, paladin, and such, that adds this.

[Atharin]

Egads, just think of all the rogues who would take one warlock level for that eldritch spear + sneak attack..

[Peregrinus]

If it is implemented properly, Eldridge Spear wouldn't do anything for it, as you can only make Sneak Attacks within 30 ft anyway.

Sure, a rogue might pick up one level of Warlock to be able to use Eldridge Blast as sneak attack, but they could do the same damage more efficiently, without sacrificing rogue levels and abilities or extra attacks per round, by using a shortbow, which rogues are already proficient with, and hell, the shortbow has a higher damage potential. The only class this would really help is the Arcane Trickster, who's entire concept is being a spellcasting rogue, but as things stand now are rather subpar.

Before you guys go on a rant about the utterly brokenness of it, keep in mind the following rules governing sneak attack:
- Only attacks with an attack roll can be a sneak attack
- You must be within 30 ft
- You must either catch the opponent flat footed (attacking out of stealth) or be behind them.

Further, both rogues and mages get the most benefit from being pure in their own class, as their damage curve drops drastically the more they multiclass. A rogue who takes a few levels of a spellcasting class isn't going to be picking up attack spells, but utility spells. A mage who dips into rogue is doing it for the extra skill points and class skills (and possibly evasion), not for the sneak attack. In fact, 2 levels of rogue do not even begin to replaced the 2 levels of spellcasting when it comes to spell damage, unless you've already maximized the damage dice for those spells. Even then, it adds 1d6 more damage only occasionally, hardly a game breaking amount.

Now, should it be added? If it could be done without causing any problems to the game engine and Dasaria, I say do it. Then again, I'm a firm believer in making things as close to 3.5 Rules as possible, especially when it benefits a PrC that's pretty underwhelming and makes it competative.

[Alterity]

Before you guys go on a rant about the utterly brokenness of it, keep in mind the following rules governing sneak attack:
- Only attacks with an attack roll can be a sneak attack
- You must be within 30 ft
- You must either catch the opponent flat footed (attacking out of stealth) or be behind them.

Just a side note, I have noticed it becoming quite hard to sneak attack when not just leaving stealth. Another criteria you can have to sneak attack an enemy is them not attacking you as well. But I've not been attacked, and been behind a person, and not received a sneak attack.

[Atharin]

Sure, a rogue might pick up one level of Warlock to be able to use Eldridge Blast as sneak attack, but they could do the same damage more efficiently, without sacrificing rogue levels and blah blah blah blah blah.

Are we playing the same game? If people complain about HiPS abuse now, think of what could be with a (reliable) ranged use of it. All you need is to "sacrifice" 1 level, and I've yet to meet a rogue who hasn't multiclassed.

Touch attack blasts from a safe-from-melee distance + SA damage, take a few steps back, hide, rince repeat etc etc. Not that the same couldn't be done with a rod of frost but eh.

[Peregrinus]

But now you're not talking about a rogue multiclassing, you're talking about a rogue/shadowdancer or assassin multiclassing, a different thing entirely. Yes, it's harsher, but honestly, I still don't have a problem with it, as it's no different, to me, than attacking with a shortbow, and in fact it likely has a lower attack bonus and damage than the bow. Plus they sacrifice any extra attacks they get in the round in exchange for making one attack that is a likely hit.

That said, I dislike people taking only 1 or 2 levels of a PrC just to pick up one of the abilities. It's my opinion if you're going to go into a PrC you need to take at least 5 levels of it (unless it has less than 5 levels, then just take the full blown thing). If I were in change, I'd require everyone to take at least 5 levels of any PrC (not class) they took. I should also note that I dislike pure powergaming, calculating the exact classes and numbers to make the most overpowered character, so saying such a rule would "mess up my build," to me, means that I shut down a powergamer from min-maxing and making things more difficult for people who make character build decisions on something silly, like RP.