Question on Cuhannan Pantheon..

[Sorc]

Greetings..
1st of all i want to thank and respect The Explorer on his help with building it, thats q cool thing that it exist...

But...
I got few important questions...

WE have family, quite rebellous CG (CG is a concept) cuhannan family, all sisters - which love pranks, flirt and freedom, daughters of some mysterious desert lord, (Cuhannan Mystic Theurge (SS/Sorc)) Father, which have own "lands" and his mage tower in deep southern cuhanna...
We rp this group well, and have few people involved (~3)

The problems are:
None of existing cuhannan deities favors falchion, which is really cuhannish
None of cuhannan deities is CG (how about desert mists/ illusions?)
CN Hadad who is Lord of storms is.......

Hadad - Lord of Storms
Lesser Deity
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Holy Symbol: Warmace
Favorite Colors: Blue and Black
Favorite Weapon: Warmace
Animal: Crocodile
Father of S'arrapu. Often worshiped by warriors and barbarians. His preference for making sandstorms is most troubling to the nomadic tribes.

Black and Blue themed lord of Desert ! Storms (Blue color and desert? ), and its symbol is crocodile (Oo Crocodile and Deserts? Crocodile is water creature... sorry i can fail to see how it can be merged with wild sandstorms .. )

So regarding those questions ... is any improvement / change possible..?
The question is for The Explorer and DMs...

Thanks

[The Explorer]

Sorc, thanks for your interest in Cuhanna and it's Pantheon

All I can say is after all the research that was done every part of the Cuhannan Pantheon was added as translated/made applicable or selected for either that colours/animals reason/meaning, otherwise a few could have been to similiar to some of the Dasarian Pantheon and our objective wasn't to take players away from following those Dasarian Diety's that are part of the overall campaign just add Cuhannan Pantheon lore steming from some background work on The Lord S'arrapu. Falchion was disallowed as not of Cuhannan origin there is no way to pair it with Hadad as well as other reasons.

FYI I am not sure if whorshiping Hadad or any of the other Cuhannan Dieties except S'arrapu in Dasaria would be outlawed I will have to talk to some folks and I will let you know.

I look forward to RPing with your group in the future as currently they seem somewhat of an oddity to me mentally, a small suugestion if I may; I think Pere has a follower of Hadad perhaps it would be wise for your chars to Rp with his before they meet mine.

[Sorc]

We got quite nice setup and group with own background lore and story... About father and big family .. since Cuhannan Land is too big and Souther cuhanna is really mysterious.. Cuhannans can be different..


also i think you didnt understood my question....
there is still some option possible for colors and animals - and blue and black color for lord of desrt sand storms, with animal of water-dwelling creature is really odd choice, more than that we do not want Hadad... he is just simply best fitting one... we need CG, and i think every pantheon should include all alignments..
The main problem, that we are CG cuhannans - and we do not find any proper deity to follow.
Also CG means polarity opposite of Sa'Rappu so i think IC we shoul not either care or reveal our intentions to anyone who follow S'aRappu...

As for Falchion as i recall well, some Cuhannan fighters in arena use falchion as well at White Hand quest... so telling that its dissalowed .... i seen otherwise.. and all curved blades are very Cuhanish (Scimitar and Falchion) . Arabs in deserts almost never used blunt weapon...

And i think there is always place for improvememnt , so perhaps with some input you can add things with Wired..

Also according Wired's post any Cuhannan deities are IC allowed , and even if not (outlawed) - we dont care, because IC we just cuhannan sister adventurer family with some charge from their father, who is CG. We not reveal any intentions in completley strange land...Being very outgoing , very Chaotic, and quite Good sister family. (Sorceress / Frenzied Bersesker is main pair)
We plan to play CG and not interested with any interaction with S'arrapu or other LE/LN cults.. We are just other , self-suficient cuhannans on our own, acting by whims and instructions of father, who is powerfull mystic theurge from mysterious southern cuhanna...
Being human nation Cuhannans, as creatures (which also had some Elven tribes) should be open to any alignment, this their pantheon should have some CG deity...

[The Explorer]

As for Falchion as i recall well, some Cuhannan fighters in arena use falchion as well at White Hand quest... so telling that its dissalowed .... i seen otherwise.. and all curved blades are very Cuhanish (Scimitar and Falchion) . Arabs in deserts almost never used blunt weapon...

Yeah some NPC's and even one of my own Cuhannan Chars use Falchions but we are not listing Falchions to a diety as it was agreed it's wrong as Scimitars and Sabres are Cuhannan. Remember that majority of Cuhannan's commonfolk are traders swapping/haggling items for items which is why Flachions (only because of the curved edge) are sometimes used it should mostly be Scimitar and Sabre. ((Whip would have also been a major Cuhannan weapon but like the Sabre it's not ingame))

Well I was going to find out through Rping with your chars but seems you want to do this here: I don't think you have quite grasped the Harshness and rawness of Cuhanna let alone Southern Cuhanna chaotic good is completely unlikely because they'd have had to do things against CG alignment just to survive or even if there father looked after them they'd as you said were rebellious so would have been attempting to fight for their cause in Cuhanna which makes no sense how/why they'd get to Varana or how they are not known to the pilgrim's of S'arrapu. More importantly I am highly disinclined to change Hadad's Alignment as there are already three PC's that worship him and your requested changes would be affecting their chars. S'arrapu is King of Dieties there so your chars would have to pay homage to him in any City or Port they entered or passed through (even the ships that get to Varana from Cuhanna have The Burning Lords Eternal Flame on them), another point I hope your aware of female chars would be inferior/2nd class citizens in Cuhanna and Elves are hated. Yes I am aware worshipers of some Cuhannan Dieties are IC allowed but finding out if they are outlawed should be important to you.

I will review Hadad's colours, crocodile is more for it's meaning not for the actual animal, I will reveiw that as well but Hadad is not nor ever will be lord of Desert and before you ask no there will be no more Dieties added to the Cuhannan Pantheon. I wouldn't get your hopes up though when it comes to any changes to Cuhannan Dieties most of the cuhannan dieties stem from a research/specific backstory as I said there are other reasons for things which are not for the open forum. If you want to play CG chars you should consider making them either Varanite and choose a relevant Diety or come up with a Rpable background instead of we've made these chars now would you mind making or changing a God to fit them. It's almost the same as asking Peregry to change a Varanite god.

I should have spoken to the necesary people to get you an answer on Tuesday.

[Mon-da-oth]

The Cuhanans have a long established, player created and driven lore. To simply create a few characters, call them Cuhanans and then demand that all those that came before you change is just wrong.

Sorry Sorc but I disagree with you on this.

[Sorc]

Well i didnt created charaters then demanded change.... I simply fail to see how CG is not aviable for them, lets not take into consideration falchion ,just CG alignment, .....

But then still colors for CN deity can be improved...

It was not "simply" i tested, researched, invested thought.
It was not "demand" as well

The Cuhanans have a long established, player created and driven lore. To simply create a few characters, call them Cuhanans and then demand that all those that came before you change is just wrong.

Sorry Sorc but I disagree with you on this.

I am PC and player like The Explorer and Man-Da-Oth , as you guys, and this is my feedback... Its up to you, but, i actually do not see anything wrong on posting this feedback. Or i am sort 2 player which cant think and create, contribute things? Your assumption that i "just creating then demanding" in its pure form is quite completely wrong... Players seem to be stewards of the game, and me, as one who played it alot of hours already (perhaps less than you but still , alot) expressed thoughts to one who related to Creation of Cuhannan pantheon, and i think that it will be much better if all will behave like me, and give their feedback/research/efforts, than just lurking silently with lack of care/interest... and then go ang grind xp... i am interested to RP certain types of characters... And i do see hole in human-nation pantheon which lacks 1 alignement, being simply natural to human race, whatever their surrounding environment is. So if you dont want other player just being ignoring you , please cease such harsh comments....I do some effort ...And i find your reply simply inappropriate.. I do respect ones with critique to my creations more, than those who just do not care.... No one demanding, but i have strong feedback, which is empowered by fact that many of desert dwellers i've met are CG, and blue color have nothing to do with fire themed, waterless desert, as well crocodile which is water-dwelling animal...
again i do not demand, but i telling to toehrs , which came before me , that there is some hole, lacking piece which prevents from other people to play cuhannan, and making feedback about certain details, which can be improved... The fact you came before me cant force me to fit your set if i dont like it.... or see flaws.. for that i report flaws... as anyone should do... Don t forget that fact you been here longer than i am (but i've been long time too) not makes you god-like, always right one, and me second-sort player....
More than that i can assure you, if DMs were replying to guys like The Explorer in same tone as you (i hope you see the parralel) Das was much less funnier place to spend time in...

I have much to say about such attitude, DM code, and neccesity of DM to fit and update game according to people, (The Explorer is Cuhannan DM in this case)... And about how good, to another desiring players which want to create their Cuhannan group, answer "we were here before you so ### off..." is, but i think i'll stop here... i just hope i explained to you things clear enough...



@ The Explorer
Thank You for Reply.... This is just feedback of player who wanted to play certain cuhannan (rebellous, CG)... but atm i have few problem to create backstory deity wise.... Consider this as just feedback, which will encourage more player (perhaps not only me) if some things that i found, and which are lacking , may be added somehow... and thanks for effort on doing your review..
I think that for any human nation whatever it should be the pantheon should cover all alignment scale.
Also IRL i saw desert (not so harsh but anyways its really harsh environment to live in ) many times (i do have really true hot deserts in country i live in), so i am sure ones who live in it can be CG.... People who willing help needy/anyone, espessially to ones who experience hard times in such harsh lands, empathy-filled ones, but still too chaotic, freedom loving, because freedom of desert and life there taints them that way. For example - many bedouins i encountered (who actually live all their life in the Desert - and other desert-loving types i ecountered - are CG (as well as CN/CE)

[Evelond Formos]

Tip of the day: Do what you want. Lore is flexible in Das for the purposes of fitting factions and storylines. And something like an entire nation can't be laid out definitively anyway. There are exceptions to every rule, secrets to every known truth, etc.

Keep an open mind people. Not to the ridiculous but don't ignore something simply because it's not established lore. We're not Forgotten Realms.

(Disclaimer: due to insufficient interest I have not actually read the majority of words in this thread)

[Sorc]

Thank You Evelond
I've been really trying to fit our family (CG independent females, which hate patriarchal common cuhannan patterns, and grown in family (of independent well protected by desert mage) where male and female equality been example) into lore..... but it been bit annoying to not to find niche...(they are still human... CG, in desert... thats normal.. Even in FR you can meet LG orcs, Good Drow, NE Aasimars etc.. as for humans... of any nation, everywhere ... in D&D CG is quite normal alignemnt for human) having some options restricted... Where is rule there is exeption, always... And being cut in form like "Your chars family background story is not kosher" makes very depressing, thrown away feel.. I see the true possibility of existing of such family.. and if DM (The Explorer) will restrict me from making such a background i will cease to play cuhannans and will lose interest to them at all ... If that is a goal, then it will be achieved, kosher cuhannans only aye i see

Declaimer reply: aye you dont need .. those are just boring words for you, directed to other people which need to read them...:eP

[Mon-da-oth]

Just because I disagree doesn't make you a bad player or your ideas useless and it doesn't have anything to do with the amount of time you or I have been on the server. I would be willing to bet that you have more play time in than me despite the fact that I have been on the server longer.

You have had some wonder ideas and I have supported those. If the one time I disagree with you ruins your entire play time on the sever then I will refrain from commenting on anything you have to say in the future, but what I was reading in this thread came across to me as a lack of respect to the work of those that put so much effort into creating the idea behind the Cuhannans.

On the points that you made that I do agree with; Falchions should be included, the crocodile does seem bit odd in the context it is included and there "could be" some CG Cuhanans. So it would seem that I agree with most of what you have proposed and simply disagree in the manner it is being presented.

[Sorc]

Just because I disagree doesn't make you a bad player or your ideas useless and it doesn't have anything to do with the amount of time you or I have been on the server. I would be willing to bet that you have more play time in than me despite the fact that I have been on the server longer.

You have had some wonder ideas and I have supported those. If the one time I disagree with you ruins your entire play time on the sever then I will refrain from commenting on anything you have to say in the future, but what I was reading in this thread came across to me as a lack of respect to the work of those that put so much effort into creating the idea behind the Cuhannans.

On the points that you made that I do agree with; Falchions should be included, the crocodile does seem bit odd in the context it is included and there "could be" some CG Cuhanans. So it would seem that I agree with most of what you have proposed and simply disagree in the manner it is being presented.

sorry...I think you wrong with calling me "simple demanding".. I do respect The Explorer's work, and i tried to express it, sorry if i failed..
please re-read my posts... i did not shown disrespect... all i asked is the implementation/reviewing of things, you agrreing with me actually about...

few things:
1. i am not native english speaker
2. i log to forums from the job often

those 2 mean that sometimes i have time to polish my text, and sometimes it will look like raw translation, and, perhaps bit rough.
so perhaps i may sound too harsh because of that and because instead of DM-like cooperation/solid explanation i just got judgement about how "kosher" our sisters are, and fact that we need some kind of "approval". We do like to play CG Cuhannans, and all reason of this thread is to make positive feedback with few corrections....

So, as you agree by yourself with my points, means i was not just "simple" (as you expresed) "demanding". I was:

1. Asking for improvement.
2. Giving feedback.
3. Expressed my hostility to:
a. idea that our cuhanna chars must pass some kind of approval/viability check. We do not want to play with S'Arappu faction, and please do not see any offence in that... The idea is freedom loving hot girls which fights for equality..and have mean magic daddy in his tower far in mysterious south cuhanna
b. "adamant lore" concept - which also been denied by Evelond... in P&P DMs oftn fit their game to players, and vice versa.. Also much of The Explorer's sayings were adamant, but, as i told - i know, perhaps, about desert more than him, and that in D&D human nations (any) open to CG alignemtn, no matter what their goverment - that means if goverment is LE, CG will represent "rebel" side.

Your post, buddy hovever, didnt confirmed agreement with my points, but confirmed the concpet of adamant lore, viability of "being proper" check from The Explorer... but somehow it ended being more offending than Explorers adamant at start, but confirming some change later posts.

No offence meant, and i do not demand things... As i recall one of Explorers posts recently to create Das by our hands - here i am, helping creating, and telling my, not simple, but serious analysis feedback, and slight improvemnt Which may bring more people play Cuhannans (not on IC/RP Mordecai’s side though :eP )

I do / did respected The Explorer's work, said so, thinking so, and being basing my rp already on it... simply i found...felt .. "forgotten" , not having option to play charaters which fit cuhannan image, but hard to fit to deity list, as well noted oddity of crocodile/blue color being symbol of sand strom god.
I didnt came with telling "Hey Bro ur deities are crap, change them all " I've told "Buddy you done great job, but please add some things into hole i found, because it will deny many things/people playing Cuhannans" .. and then "Buddy, dont judge my characters, and dont get offended on me bcause i want to create oposite alignemnt cuhannans to your S'Arappu faction... "
I have experience of being DM/ being modder.... and i being reciving critique frequently... but in most cases it even not critique - just things which i wasnt able to notice, because had too much information to work on/take care off, and missed some details...

[Mon-da-oth]

A misunderstanding on my part then. My apologies.

[Sorc]

Aye np, cheers then, man..

As for suggestions, hope any of my input / text / typing / typos help some

[The Explorer]

Sorry Sorc I have spoken with my Cuhannan peer and after reviewing Hadad I have both bad and good news for you:

The bad news; we will not be changing any of the Cuhannan Diety information.

The good news; your group may create a small faction e.g. elite group of woman protectors of Hadad, give them a Cuhannan Hadad related name, some Lore (a sentence or at most two sentences of lore nothing excessive e.g. why they are CG and reason for them to weild Falchions) and post it here for me to consider adding into Hadad's descript or ofcourse the three of you may continue RPing them as you have been without changing any Cuhannan information on the Forum. (The later choice gives you alot more freedom as most Rpied Varanites & Cuhannan's in Varana would consider them delusional)

[Evelond Formos]

They would? It seems odd to me that a single faction should set hard lore for the entirety of a kingdom. Let your own PCs consider them delusional. Don't say NPCs necessarily would. Let the DMs decide that.

I'm sorry, I'm just really getting a bad taste from these "may"s and "may not"s. Hell, there are varied pantheons even in Dasaria.

Sorry if I'm out of line here.

[The Explorer]

Your opinion is always welcome Eve even when I disagree with it.

IMO small secret cults of both good and evil diety's of Cuhannan/Varana are possible and if Sorc comes up with a suitable one that can be used by another small faction fitting the similiar descript to the same diety thats worth my consideration.

At the moment it seems to me they have chosen to make chars with a wrong alignment, breaking from Cuhannan tradition, opposed to society, would have to have an interesting rpable reason for being in Varana, would have been totally dependant on their father yet claiming to be independant, the only way possible I see them surviving is to have stayed at home in their fathers mud built mage tower. Since they aren't servants of S'arrapu on "The Pilgrimage" or traders my chars wouldn't just see the three of them as delussional but most likely oddities to sell as slaves to the Lockwar temple, Cuhannan NPC's in Varana wouldn't be helpful, polite or respectful to them either.

Oh also @ Sorc my image of desertland land Southern Cuhanna come in part for some of the background work done by the creators of Cuhanna, from description of deserts by my father who has lived in Dubai, Saudi Arabia and been to Egypt plus the horrified descriptions of the beautifuly deadly descriptions of Dubai and Eqyptian Deserts by my Mother add in some horrifying recounts from a mate who was an ex Green Beret of The Royal Marines and then we throw in some Cuhannans for good measure. The only desert I have actually been to is Nevada desert but that doesn't count.