Well it's official - Expansion pack for NWN 2

[Starkwold]

I can't believe some of the responses here... You wouldn't buy the expansions? That's crazy! The expansions make the game, they don't break it! Again, who cares about the lame OC... we want more interactive MP development... Right?! Darn right we do... Who wants to only level to 20? Not me... The more the merrier. Again, developing a tri-class character (with multiple prestige classes), they only become "individuals" once they reach 20+ levels. A fighter is a fighter, until they become a Fighter/Assassin, and then they become unique. To become unique you need the extra higher levels of an assassin (for instance) to become different from other fighters that maybe followed the path of Fighter/Rogue... The two paths are markedly different from each other; again, only available if you have the Epic classes available.

I'm trying to figure out if you're being sarcastic or not—I can't really tell.

A small portion of a character is made unique by its race and class. There will always be mages, fighters, warlocks, rogues, etc. Yes, adding epic levels and allowing multiple PRCs will expand on that—but it's essentially the same story.

A character is truly made unique by its history and personality. It is made unique by its motives, its desires, and from the interaction is has with other characters. A character is made unique by its impact it has on the server.

In Dasaria 1, Maelstrom was just a wizard—behind that wizard, however, was a diabolical, scheming Lich that had eyes and ears in every corner and in every building. His name was uttered with both fear and apprehension, and has been effectively immortalized in Dasarian Lore because of that.

Nobody remembers Maelstrom the Wizard, they remember Maelstrom, the Dread Lich of Nergal.

I could go on, citing examples from an enumerable list of player characters.

Whether or not epic levels are added remains to be seen—from a personal persective, I highly doubt they will. If they are, they certainly won't be added out of a need for unique characters.

My $0.02.

[Evelond Formos]

I can't believe some of the responses here... You wouldn't buy the expansions? That's crazy! The expansions make the game, they don't break it! Again, who cares about the lame OC... we want more interactive MP development... Right?! Darn right we do... Who wants to only level to 20? Not me... The more the merrier. Again, developing a tri-class character (with multiple prestige classes), they only become "individuals" once they reach 20+ levels. A fighter is a fighter, until they become a Fighter/Assassin, and then they become unique. To become unique you need the extra higher levels of an assassin (for instance) to become different from other fighters that maybe followed the path of Fighter/Rogue... The two paths are markedly different from each other; again, only available if you have the Epic classes available.

I'm trying to figure out if you're being sarcastic or not—I can't really tell.

A small portion of a character is made unique by its race and class. There will always be mages, fighters, warlocks, rogues, etc. Yes, adding epic levels and allowing multiple PRCs will expand on that—but it's essentially the same story.

A character is truly made unique by its history and personality. It is made unique by its motives, its desires, and from the interaction is has with other characters. A character is made unique by its impact it has on the server.

In Dasaria 1, Maelstrom was just a wizard—behind that wizard, however, was a diabolical, scheming Lich that had eyes and ears in every corner and in every building. His name was uttered with both fear and apprehension, and has been effectively immortalized in Dasarian Lore because of that.

Nobody remembers Maelstrom the Wizard, they remember Maelstrom, the Dread Lich of Nergal.

I could go on, citing examples from an enumerable list of player characters.

Whether or not epic levels are added remains to be seen—from a personal persective, I highly doubt they will. If they are, they certainly won't be added out of a need for unique characters.

My $0.02.

QFT

By the way, I never said I wouldn't buy the expansion, I definitely will, because I think, more than likely, Dasaria will upgrade to it as well. Plus, I'd like to see how the single player goes. I thought around the beginning, the OC for this game was a little good, but I got bored. Maybe this one will be better.

Hey, will they pour the glass half-full or half-empty?

[kikkelipoika]

Hey, will they pour the glass half-full or half-empty?

Completely empty.

[Griffin Ironfist]

I'm trying to figure out if you're being sarcastic or not—I can't really tell.

A small portion of a character is made unique by its race and class. There will always be mages, fighters, warlocks, rogues, etc. Yes, adding epic levels and allowing multiple PRCs will expand on that—but it's essentially the same story.

A character is truly made unique by its history and personality. It is made unique by its motives, its desires, and from the interaction is has with other characters. A character is made unique by its impact it has on the server.

In Dasaria 1, Maelstrom was just a wizard—behind that wizard, however, was a diabolical, scheming Lich that had eyes and ears in every corner and in every building. His name was uttered with both fear and apprehension, and has been effectively immortalized in Dasarian Lore because of that.

Nobody remembers Maelstrom the Wizard, they remember Maelstrom, the Dread Lich of Nergal.

I could go on, citing examples from an enumerable list of player characters.

Whether or not epic levels are added remains to be seen—from a personal persective, I highly doubt they will. If they are, they certainly won't be added out of a need for unique characters.

My $0.02.

Nope, not being sarcastic at all. I dunno, what you're describing is a fine line between make-believe and "reality". Sure, we can all pretend we're something we're not, but in the end, if you don't have the skills to back it up, it's just hot air. My fighter/assassin/shadowdancer build would hardly be a threat to anyone despite my roleplaying claims... I need the skills and levels to back it up.

Sure, I can say I'm an assassin, but all things considered, I need to ding to level 13 in fighter before I can even get one level in assassin, and 14th to get a class in Shadowdancer... The fighter class is much watered down going this route, and so early in the build is vulnerable to getting owned by a variety of differing tactics...

Again, sure I can "say" I'm a fearsome assassin, but really I'm not. Add another 14 levels to that, along with 2 more levels in fighter, and 10 in SD, and I'm kicking some serious butt; I'm essentially a walking, shadowy killing-machine. You'll see my summoned shadow coming before you'll see me. That's why we need the expansions... so we can visibly see what we're trying to aspire to become through the roleplaying. Everything else is just words... and, after all, isn't that what bards are for?

[broncoblitz]

I remember Maelstrom the Wizard, taught him everything he knew.

[Grayle]

Nope, not being sarcastic at all. I dunno, what you're describing is a fine line between make-believe and "reality". Sure, we can all pretend we're something we're not, but in the end, if you don't have the skills to back it up, it's just hot air. My fighter/assassin/shadowdancer build would hardly be a threat to anyone despite my roleplaying claims... I need the skills and levels to back it up.

I see what you are talking about, but D & D and all role-playing is pretty much systemitized make-believe. Some players figure out how to tip the balance of power in thier favor through efficient numbers, some through the dedicated role-playing. Persona and portrayal are simply means to not let the mechanic restrictions impede ones ability to play out scenarios the game won't allow. Half of expert role-playing is about hot air...being able to manipulate situations either intentionally or unintentionally. Cause->Effect->Change->Story Evolution.

Heroes and antiheroes in Dasaria did not become so through sheer power. They created movements through influence and organization. Sure, they might have been very powerful individually, but they became that through actual player skill, whether they could dominate 1 v 1 combat or not.

I assume you are primarilly focused on tactics and individual combat prowess, and that's fine. Meh, not trying to be confrontational, but I wanted to lend that perspective from a RP point of view. In Dasaria, power and influence are aquired through many different means (techniques).

I am hopeful that any expansion pack for this game will have some useful bits and pieces that Dasaria might be able to use. That's about it.

[Starkwold]

Nope, not being sarcastic at all. I dunno, what you're describing is a fine line between make-believe and "reality". Sure, we can all pretend we're something we're not, but in the end, if you don't have the skills to back it up, it's just hot air. My fighter/assassin/shadowdancer build would hardly be a threat to anyone despite my roleplaying claims... I need the skills and levels to back it up.

Sure, I can say I'm an assassin, but all things considered, I need to ding to level 13 in fighter before I can even get one level in assassin, and 14th to get a class in Shadowdancer... The fighter class is much watered down going this route, and so early in the build is vulnerable to getting owned by a variety of differing tactics...

Again, sure I can "say" I'm a fearsome assassin, but really I'm not. Add another 14 levels to that, along with 2 more levels in fighter, and 10 in SD, and I'm kicking some serious butt; I'm essentially a walking, shadowy killing-machine. You'll see my summoned shadow coming before you'll see me. That's why we need the expansions... so we can visibly see what we're trying to aspire to become through the roleplaying. Everything else is just words... and, after all, isn't that what bards are for?

I'll use an example that may or may not be the best one to use.

Raeflyn, one of my more favourite characters, didn't need an awesome build to effectively take over the nation when he declared Martial Law. He had the authority and power he had achieved as a Redboot Brigaider—when he declared Martial Law, the Redboot Brigade was given a large compliment of Redboot Officers (NPCs) that were posted around town and effectively kept the peace. I didn't need 14 levels of fighter with an assortment of Shadowdancer and Assassin—I had used the leverage achieved through good, solid roleplay, and had the loyalty of an entire Brigade, both PC and NPC.

You don't just need numbers to achieve power and influence on the server. It helps to have a good build, but it's not necessary.

[Minuvas]

Raeflyn, one of my more favourite characters, didn't need an awesome build to effectively take over the nation when he declared Martial Law. He had the authority and power he had achieved as a Redboot Brigaider—when he declared Martial Law, the Redboot Brigade was given a large compliment of Redboot Officers (NPCs) that were posted around town and effectively kept the peace. I didn't need 14 levels of fighter with an assortment of Shadowdancer and Assassin—I had used the leverage achieved through good, solid roleplay, and had the loyalty of an entire Brigade, both PC and NPC..

Play your cards right Falcon, and I'm sure we can take a walk down memory Lane.

*Evil grin*

[Elrith]

Raeflyn, one of my more favourite characters, didn't need an awesome build to effectively take over the nation when he declared Martial Law. He had the authority and power he had achieved as a Redboot Brigaider—when he declared Martial Law, the Redboot Brigade was given a large compliment of Redboot Officers (NPCs) that were posted around town and effectively kept the peace. I didn't need 14 levels of fighter with an assortment of Shadowdancer and Assassin—I had used the leverage achieved through good, solid roleplay, and had the loyalty of an entire Brigade, both PC and NPC..

Play your cards right Falcon, and I'm sure we can take a walk down memory Lane.

*Evil grin*

Ahem. Did you just propose what I think you did?

[kikkelipoika]

Raeflyn, one of my more favourite characters, didn't need an awesome build to effectively take over the nation when he declared Martial Law. He had the authority and power he had achieved as a Redboot Brigaider—when he declared Martial Law, the Redboot Brigade was given a large compliment of Redboot Officers (NPCs) that were posted around town and effectively kept the peace. I didn't need 14 levels of fighter with an assortment of Shadowdancer and Assassin—I had used the leverage achieved through good, solid roleplay, and had the loyalty of an entire Brigade, both PC and NPC.

You don't just need numbers to achieve power and influence on the server. It helps to have a good build, but it's not necessary.

Ah, but an assassin is not meant to hold any power over others through political means. He's an assassin goddammit, he should be able to rape some serious *** if he get's the jump in battle, and other things like that. Not everyone can be powerful faction-leaders or somesuch, and we need assassins to eliminate certain faction leaders. And we need professional hireable PC-killers. I still disagree about the epic levels though, You can plan out an effective assassin build perfectly without any epic levels. If you just wan't to be the "DARK MASTER OF EVERYTHING MUHAHAHAHAHA!", then you should go play elder scrolls 'cause it ain't working in D&D (urgh.... i really said that.. i really told some people that they should go play TES... what kind of a monster am i ).

Just make a traditional Rogue 11/ Assassin 9, with dual-wielding, high dex and poison usage this character is a lethal and stealthy assassin. Besides, it's not all about the numbers, it's also about the ability to use correct tricks in correct stuations, ie usage of traps, scrolls (if you have UMD), and invisibility and stealth skills. Every character is weak when caught unprepared, and no one can be prepared all the time. It requires more than an über build to play an effective assassin. Besides, a good assassin is in no way fearsome. In fact, only the selected clientele should know about the assassins skills as he can slip in and out undetected.

Then, as my last point, how in the hell are you going to roleplay that billion-class-combination-monster of yours? This point would be void if not for the fact that dasaria happens to be an RP server.

[Starkwold]

You're also going to be on the same playing field as everyone else. Sure, you can't have a level 30 assassin/shadowdancer/rogue, but neither can Joe, Mary or Jim. Your kick-butt potential will be the same as Joe and Mary (but not Jim, I hear he haxx0rz.)

edit: My original point was not that you should RP a leader or a faction-leader to get power. My point is you don't need level 30 to feel a degree of influence on the server.

[obsoletenihilist]

I happen to be the type of person that multi-classes to the point of my characters taking forever to level due to XP hits from multi-classing.

I see classes and prcs as knowledge and experience, not as outright numbers. If you're an 11/9 rogue/assassin then you're pretty specialized in those fields and yeah, that's exactly what your character is meant for -or- did in the past, etc etc.. It does not mean your character can't run something. I mean as long as the character has the right personality, charisma, then what does the class matter? Sure he may not make the best general because he knows more about stealth and guile than battle formations but he could hold the rank of general in an army.. just suck at it.

If you plan on taking many many classes and not specializing.. well play the character like that. Say your rogue/fighter learned a few tricks of the trade while working for some crime boss and knows a little about assassinating people stealthily, give him a few assassin levels. Does he know one end of a longsword from another and perhaps his pappy was in the army and taught him proper use of a blade? Martial weapons feat, but perhaps he joined that army for a little bit of time or the militia, or local constables, blah blah.. Fighter levels.

The more you mix it up level-wise the less specialized your character is. This gives them strengths and weaknesses, but mostly weaknesses as one of the points in D&D is to group up with people that can cover your weaknesses while you cover theres..

Anyone playing that classic 5/5/5/5 Fighter/Rogue/Cleric/Mage is a very broad individual who is suited to many tasks.. as long as they aren't too difficult. This doesn't mean that same character isn't actually Emperor Marcus himself who uses his broad knowledge base from his four classes to control his empire like a puppet master.

Not everyone wants to RP a leader. Your best option is to have your character's stats and class/levels reflect exactly how you feel it fits closest to your roleplay of said character and leave it at that.

I'll buy the expansions. If Das never uses parts of them then that's fine too, epic levels usually complicate stuff beyond the scope of a campaign anyways when it was originally set up for non.

[kikkelipoika]

lol, just realized i quoted a wrong post

anyway, i meant to quote:

Nope, not being sarcastic at all. I dunno, what you're describing is a fine line between make-believe and "reality". Sure, we can all pretend we're something we're not, but in the end, if you don't have the skills to back it up, it's just hot air. My fighter/assassin/shadowdancer build would hardly be a threat to anyone despite my roleplaying claims... I need the skills and levels to back it up.

Sure, I can say I'm an assassin, but all things considered, I need to ding to level 13 in fighter before I can even get one level in assassin, and 14th to get a class in Shadowdancer... The fighter class is much watered down going this route, and so early in the build is vulnerable to getting owned by a variety of differing tactics...

Again, sure I can "say" I'm a fearsome assassin, but really I'm not. Add another 14 levels to that, along with 2 more levels in fighter, and 10 in SD, and I'm kicking some serious butt; I'm essentially a walking, shadowy killing-machine. You'll see my summoned shadow coming before you'll see me. That's why we need the expansions... so we can visibly see what we're trying to aspire to become through the roleplaying. Everything else is just words... and, after all, isn't that what bards are for?

[kikkelipoika]

Aww, crap, somebody shoot me already; i'm not even sure what i meant to quote anymore.

[SnorriHT]

Aww, crap, somebody shoot me already; i'm not even sure what i meant to quote anymore.